So I'll try to answer this as best as I can. I know what you're dealing with right now. So I'll be thorough.
Originally Posted by Pommy99
I’ve not replied on your thread for a while but when I read your updates a couple of weeks ago, I was curious to understand what is it that would tell you what you need to know, that he is recommitted? Is it verbal or are you looking for something in his actions?
Well May asked me a similar question a couple weeks ago. More along the lines of what will it take for you to let your guard down, but for me I think they are kind of one in the same.
Originally Posted by may22
When I was reading the end of your last post, how you were feeling when he was mentioning plans for the future, it reminded me of similar feelings you were having awhile back before this whole COVID thing happened— I think right around the time he started turning back towards you, and it threw you off your zen detachment for a bit. It seems like every time he leans in it discombobulates you a bit…. but he’s done a lot of leaning and steps toward you over these months and I wonder— just to ask you a question you’ve been asking me— have you taken a step back to see how far you’ve come? What will it take for him to do for you to open back up and drop your guard and stop being surprised when he talks about your future? Not saying there is a right answer. Just wondering what your thoughts are on that.
Here's my response:
Originally Posted by wayfarer
As far as H leaning back in and my clear aversion to him doing so, lol, I can see how far we've come. I can see that who he is now is not the man I was dealing with when I first came here. He was so angry, and cruel, and cold. And now he's more like the man I fell in love with every day. I can see how we went from strangers to slowly finding our way back to the friends and lovers we used to be. It's unfortunate that lovers came first this time around, but c'est la vie I suppose..lol. But, there are huge hiccups that just won't let me take my walls down. H isn't in IC, and while he's tentatively agreed he doesn't want to start until he can meet that person in person. H never made it through more than one session of DC. H hasn't said he's committed to at least trying. My H didn't choose our life over OW, he got dumped, because she chose the life she built over him. I haven't heard the words I love you since November. And that was ILYB. I've gotten I love your cooking. I love when you *insert sexual act here.* I've gotten "do you need a hug?" But I haven't heard a single "I love you." I haven't heard I miss you or I missed you or I missed this. Except once again "I missed *insert sexual act here* with you." He hasn't flat out said he's not moving out. He just hasn't brought it up. He isn't openly on apartment finder any more. He's paying rent here yet again. So I'm to assume he's here at least until June, could be July, could be forever. I have no idea. I have no idea about anything that's going through his head of real substance. For now I let my walls down in doses. I enjoy the moments in the moment and if it's overwhelming I quietly retreat and deal with it alone. I don't really need him to meet all those markers. But like one or two would be really nice. TBH I don't know that I'll be able to open up fully, let my guard down and not be surprised until he comes out and says he wants to try. That he isn't running any more. That he's still not sure if this marriage is for him but he's willing to find out. Any tiny bit of actual reassurance that I'm not just a friend for the end of the world. That he is using this time to mull things over. I think that's what I'd need to let go enough for it to not hurt and recoil when he leans in.
I don't know that what a said a couple week ago is much different than what I feel I need now. I'm kind of atypical as an LBS because when he leans in I don't tend to lap it up. Which has always been the case. A-hole I can handle. Kindness and now falling back into patterns of our past relationship throws me off. I tend to go through a shame cycle of "wow you're really going to let yourself be grateful for sh!t he's supposed to be doing." And a fear cycle that's really more based in my abandonment issues. Because of my childhood I see his softening always initially as a ploy to either use me for something, or as a guilt response that he'll quit doing when he feels better. When his behavior is consistent or there's follow through I eventually talk myself out of that thinking. I've been working really hard at just accepting what he offers at face value. Not projecting my BS on to it. Not trying to mind read. Not trying to assign any meaning other than exactly what he's offering me in that moment. That's something that permeates all my relationships. That isn't unique to H or our sitch.
As far as what I need to know for sure that he's recommitting/recommitted, vs. just letting my guard down, it's gotta be words and actions.
My H isn't a BSer. I see a lot of these WH/WAH saying things to keep their LBWs on the line. Saying things because they don't like to hurt feelings. Saying things because they think it'll be a softer landing. H says what he's thinking. Even if hurts someone's feelings. Even if it leads to confrontation. Even if he changes his mind 10 min later in that moment he meant what he said. My sitch moved very quickly. He was very determined to leave our MR and our home and wasn't quiet about it. He unfortunately had more conversations about leaving me with me than he did with OW and that bit him in the behind in the end. I said it before, we didn't truly move into limbo until this break up with OW happened. I was in limbo alone until that point. I was the one undecided about our marriage. He was sure he was leaving. He was still sure he was leaving 2 weeks after the break up. He was telling me he was leaving often and loudly and openly searching for apartments. Every R conversation which I never started, he did, ended with there's nothing left for me in this M. By week 3 he stopped saying he was leaving, stopped looking for apartments, and stopped R conversations. His silence means something. When he's made a decision he'll tell me. He'll say he loves me, and he'll say he wants to try.
As far as actions. I can see he's already trying. I know he's trying. My presents for Christmas this year were him pretending to not be a jerk around our families, not telling any one who would listen that our marriage was falling apart and he wanted to leave me, and staying off his phone with OW while we did Christmas with our girls and extended families. Chocolate covered strawberries, a focus on me for the day, and a fancy take out dinner is long, long way from where we were. He checks in throughout the day. He asks if I need things before he comes home from work. He hugs me when he knows I need it. We joke. We talk. We enjoy each other's company. We are physically intimate. But he's set up his own emotional intimacy boundaries. When those start breaking down I'll know. Hand holding (which never happens). Sleeping in the bed with me (which rarely happens). Kisses, butt and boob grabs, hugs, and cuddles when the kids are around (because those only happen when the kids are completely out of eye line and ear shot). All seem inconsequential. And I'm sure in some sitches those things are still happening in crisis or are happening and they are in limbo. But those are the lines he drew. Not me. So when he knows. I'll know.
The vets always say if they are all in you'll know. He's not all in yet. He's considering it. I can see it and I can feel it.
