A typical Cliche

[sandi2]

Still don't know how the process works I'd say but I'm hoping we can start working on strategies to work on my problems soon.

I don't know how other religious sponsored therapy sessions may be conducted, but if you get the feeling he is trying to incorporate the belief system into your sessions, then you can decide if you want to continue or find an IC that's not paid by religious funding. I'm not trying to debate it, I just wanted you to know they aren't Christian.

If anyone wants to chime in not on what they discuss but the process with there therapist I would appreciate. Are you giving like homework, coping mechanisms, things to actually apply to life to help you change habits or is it just all self realization?

I have had little personal experience for myself. I put my daughter in counseling, to help her cope with the disease she had. It was horrible! The guy was later fired. From what I read about other's experience, it depends on the IC. If he knows you are there to find out how to heal, improve, fix, or whatever......then, hopefully, he will give you the how-to. Some IC's just listen, ask about your past, etc. That seems logical to me, but I agree with you.......give me something on paper. I don't think it would hurt to ask him, after all, why shouldn't you know the plan of operations?

I'm not sure what holes in particular your talking about but I have tried to be as honest as possible at least from my perspective.

Oh, no! As I told you, I didn't mean I thought you were lying. I apologize for using poor wording. I am guilty of trying to get a picture in my head about the LBS and what he's all about. Why did he interact with his W the way he did, and why the MR derailed. I only meant that I was having trouble finding the missing pieces to the puzzle.

Like I said I didn't take the time to walk into her job to give her things, every now and again I did but mostly I didn't.

Neither did my H, but I didn't want him coming to my job and giving me flowers or some gift. To me, it felt as if it was all for show. Having flowers delivered felt a little differently, but no, I didn't want him showing at work.

I did always hold her hand out in public, I talked about her with everyone I ever met, (Something I know for a fact she didn't do about me. Sometimes I met people she worked with for months who didn't know about me. Probably should have been a red flag.)

Everyone has different feelings about showing romantic gestures. Some women have a need for the H to give some signs of affection while in front of other people. I wasn't one who wanted it, but apparently, your W was. Did she initiate affection with you, while in front of others? Strange that she would not even mention she had a H, if she wanted flowers & gifts at work.

I was always affectionate with her, I always was trying to talk to her, to do things she wanted, to take her out. I bought gifts, I went out of my way to get things she wanted even in the middle of night and during storms. I filled her car with gas every week before she could even think about it.

Wow! Now you are sharing the more positive side of you, whereas, previously you were mostly showing the negative. Look, everyone has their own language of love. Have you ever read that book about the five love languages? If not, I think you might find very enlightening. I can clearly see where my H and I missed the mark, and were not doing the things that each other needed. My H is not a talker, and I craved for him to share his ideas, goals, desires, etc. I needed him to talk to me intimately, and feed my ego. That would have made me feel extremely close to him. I could probably count on one hand how many times it happened, and you would think he could see how I was so happy as a result of it. His love language is acts of service, which I didn't know until I read the LL book. It all made sense after I received a tiny bit of education in this area.

I believe it's very important, Illidin, to try to fill the emotional needs of our spouse, not as a way to change them over to what we want them to do, but we do it b/c we love them. For example, you probably didn't particularly want to get up in the middle of the night and go out into a storm to get something she wanted. I mean, who would? Doing it b/c you love her, is the right motive. Doing it b/c you want something from her in return, isn't the right motive. That's JMHO. In other words, if you expected her to have more sex with you b/c you are busting your chops doing things you believe she wants..........it may blow up in your face, if she thinks otherwise. It sounds logical, doesn't it? IDK, but I think there are a lot of H's who believe it is not only rational, but that's how it should work in MR.

If the W is unhappy b/c her emotional needs are not being met, and if those things you are doing is not her love language, or it does nothing to inspire her affection........then you may not see much change in the bedroom. She might appreciate what you did, but she doesn't see sex as a trade off, so to speak. Speaking from my experience, I resented him for thinking I should give him sex b/c he did something nice for me. I can have a healthier understanding about it now, but that wasn't the case when we were younger. The way you describe your W's shyness, make me think of myself the first several years of M. My H and I were each other's first, too. I went into M very uneducated about sex, and I didn't have a clue about men's needs, etc.

Some women start taking for granted her nice-guy H, who will get up in the middle of the night to get whatever she wants. Her appreciation meter fails to register. Like me, I knew my H was a nice-guy and if I asked, he would usually do it. Did he get any favors in return? He didn't get the ones he thought he should have (more sex), which may be completely normal for a man to see it that way. So, you can see the problem. It wasn't about who was to blame. Neither of us seem to understand the emotional needs of the other one. It seems simple looking back, but relationships are very complex.

Were there somethings that she disliked that I felt was core part of my being that until very recently I didn't really work on? Things like the fact that I have very limited tonal range. It rarely changes but that doesn't mean I'm not happy or excited. My wife constantly said she couldn't feel those things from me most of the time. And me telling her was never good enough. I still dont really know how to work on that, people who like or tolerate me say I'm very stoic and it took a long to learn how to not feel like I was mad or unhappy even when I was having happy conversations.

I have a relative who people quickly judge as being socially weird. Some think he is high level retarded. Some have asked me if he is autistic. Since his parents are closely related to me, I know how he was raised. One of his parents wasn't the idea role model for how one interacts socially, and the other parent didn't seem to know he needed to be taught. He really wasn't taught, IMHO, how to interact in any type of setting, to be honest. He appeared very immature, talked too much, sounded immature for his age, couldn't make eye contact, etc. His physical skills were delayed when he was a baby, which concerned me, but his parents refused to have him tested. I could go on & on, but I really don't know how much of his lack of social skills is the result of his own parents inability to teach/train him, and how much is a mental defect. Does that make sense? I have always thought his social awkwardness could improve drastically, if he knew what to change. Now for someone like myself, I always wonder why a person couldn't simply observe the behavior of others, but then I've never been in his shoes, nor your shoes. My mother taught her children how to interact with people, and how to behave in different settings (when to have fun and when to be serious). Like you, he had few friends, had very few girlfriends, etc. So, I may not really understand your situation. but I want you to know it really touches my heart, and I want to see you happy with who you are as a man.

I think, as a society, we expect everyone to act a certain way (usually like us). The minute someone doesn't have the facial expressions, verbal response, and mannerisms we think are molded in every person........we tend to distant ourselves from that individual. Your W knows you better than anyone, and maybe she feels you could blend in better if you just tried harder, IDK. Maybe she sees you like I see my relative, and believes your parents failed in that department.

It was selfish but it use to really depress me that she couldn't understand me enough to love me and not a version of me. Now I realize that isn't true and its something I can change my habits on.

We women can be guilty of trying to get our H to change. I don't why, but we seem to feel he could improve. If he was good enough for us to marry, then why do we try to change him? If you find the answer, you could become a rich man!

You asked if anyone ever taught me about how to treat a women how to cherish them? I dont fully understand this, do you mean did someone actually sit down and talk to me? No, is that something people do with their sons? I thought people just learned those things over time through trial and error.

Sometimes we learn from our role models how to treat a spouse, whether it's negative or positive. Some fathers or older males in their life will occasionally talk to the younger one about women. I don't mean just sex talk, but tell them how women want to be treated, and what works in a MR and what doesn't. Some mothers teach their sons how to treat a woman well, lovingly, etc. I was determined if I ever had sons, I would teach them from the woman's point of view. It doesn't guarantee they will have successful relationships, but they can't say they went into it blind, not understanding what a woman needs. I know that everyone doesn't have those people who will have those type of talks that prepares a young man for life, much less about the emotional needs of a woman, and how to properly treat her. So, I'm not shooting you down. I'm just getting to know who you are.

Knowing that your home had parents with some mental illness issues, gives an explanation to some of the questions I had. When a person is raised very traditionally with healthy/loving parents, it's a little harder for them to identify with a person who didn't have the same atmosphere or conditions growing up. However, I try to empathize when I am enlightened from someone who has lived it.

I have heard my wife say I dont think like normal people a million times. I dont know why that is. I never entirely even understood it. I view the world very logically and from and I guess my viewpoint is wrong.

I wouldn't say your viewpoint is wrong. I've known people (especially men) who had stoic expressions, who seemed to be serious all time, and wouldn't lighten up and joke around like I did. They were often labeled as not having a friendly or outgoing personality. I've known them to be extremely logical in their thinking and approach to everything. It doesn't make them wrong, weird, or a misfit in life. In fact, there have been several that I highly respected, based on their character......not on their sunny personality.

I'm going to end here, since it's so long. But I'm going to continue on a new post. (I seem to be doing that a lot lately.)