A typical Cliche

[Illidin]

I wasn't going to say anything about it, but it really bothers me about that website claiming Christian therapy........and that you had been set up with an IC with/through that religious organization. You said you weren't religious, but that you didn't mind. Well, I took a look at the site. It is about religion, alright, but it's Islam, not Christian.

I dont know much about this. Maybe I'll try to take another look. It was just start of the registration process. Beyond that I've had nothing to do with that site I just meet with therapist via his office. So far hes been fine, he mentioned some religion at the start and when I shot him down it hasn't come up again. Still don't know how the process works I'd say but I'm hoping we can start working on strategies to work on my problems soon. If anyone wants to chime in not on what they discuss but the process with there therapist I would appreciate. Are you giving like homework, coping mechanisms, things to actually apply to life to help you change habits or is it just all self realization?

I appreciate you taking the time to write more about your MR. I am seldom at a loss for words, but when you describe yourself, it leaves me pretty close to it. (As you'll see, I overcame it.) Actually, I am filled with many, many questions.

Ask as many questions as you like and I will try to answer them if you think it will help, even its just to help me perosnally.

I don't expect you to answer them, if you'd rather not, but there seems so many holes in your story, that it's hard to understand. I'm not saying I don't believe you. I just don't understand how you apparently know what you did wrong in your MR........but did you know it at that time, or did it simply dawn on you when your W started acting like Girls Gone Wild? It's one thing for a man to not know how to treat his W, and it's quite another thing for him to know-- but chooses not to treat her well. You have said things that made me wonder if you were never educated in what women need emotionally, and to feel loved by her H. You talked about your control issues, but all those behaviors didn't come from a need to control. Some of your actions said you simply didn't care enough to put forth an ounce of energy to make your W feel cherished, to feel beautiful, or to show you were proud of her. Look, most men need a little education when it comes to understanding women's needs. People aren't born knowing this stuff.

I'm not sure what holes in particular your talking about but I have tried to be as honest as possible at least from my perspective. Obviously at lot of this is in retrospect so I may remember every exact detail.

Do I feel like simply ignored my wife's wishes? No I don't think I ever did that. Sometimes I would work on changing things and then when things didn't change cause changes in her they would revert perhaps. Were there lots of little things that was brought up in passing that I forgot or didn't try hard enough to change, probably. Was it ever malicious? No I never wanted her to hurt. If I failed at one aspect because of insecurities that doesn't mean I didn't try other ways. Like I said I didn't take the time to walk into her job to give her things, every now and again I did but mostly I didn't. I did always hold her hand out in public, I talked about her with everyone I ever met, (Something I know for a fact she didn't do about me. Sometimes I met people she worked with for months who didn't know about me. Probably should have been a red flag.) I was always affectionate with her, I always was trying to talk to her, to do things she wanted, to take her out. I bought gifts, I went out of my way to get things she wanted even in the middle of night and during storms. I filled her car with gas every week before she could even think about it. I encouraged her in every thing she tried to do but admittedly I went about it the wrong way a lot of times. I know what she is capable of and I pressured her to do live up to that. When I should of just trusted her.

Were there somethings that she disliked that I felt was core part of my being that until very recently I didn't really work on? Things like the fact that I have very limited tonal range. It rarely changes but that doesn't mean I'm not happy or excited. My wife constantly said she couldn't feel those things from me most of the time. And me telling her was never good enough. I still dont really know how to work on that, people who like or tolerate me say I'm very stoic and it took a long to learn how to not feel like I was mad or unhappy even when I was having happy conversations. My new boss at our 3 month eval said he thought he was concerned he made a huge mistake hiring me that it took over a month a half for me to warm up at all and even then it took longer for the team to get use to how I acted. He seriously considered letting me go because they weren't sure what to make of me. Thats all in the past now and we get along fine. Thats more of a extreme example but things like my fear and negativity I also felt for a long time was just the way I was and I couldn't really change it. It was selfish but it use to really depress me that she couldn't understand me enough to love me and not a version of me. Now I realize that isn't true and its something I can change my habits on.
You asked if anyone ever taught me about how to treat a women how to cherish them? I dont fully understand this, do you mean did someone actually sit down and talk to me? No, is that something people do with their sons? I thought people just learned those things over time through trial and error. I didn't date many people before my wife. About 3 and I left 2 of them because I didn't feel we were close enough to live a life together. 1 left me and whoo boy that is a story.

What does a little boy experience in his life that leads to complete negativity about everything around him? What happened in your childhood to cause so much insecurity, and form this man who says he doesn't know how to act or respond to things that most of people would consider a natural human response? Nobody can tell you why you didn't have any friends? What made you different, Illidin?

I dont really know, I definitely had a childhood that I wouldn't want others to have. I could explain it but I don't know if this is the place for that. There are mental health issues that run through my family especially bipolar disorders. But so far I don't believe I have a psychosis yet. "man who says he doesn't know how to act or respond to things that most of people would consider a natural human response?" This really resonates with me. I have heard my wife say I dont think like normal people a million times. I dont know why that is. I never entirely even understood it. I view the world very logically and from and I guess my viewpoint is wrong. I realize that now even more than before as people here kinda treat me like a unique case, at least I feel that way. Unfortunately I did always view it as a positive, I took pride in the fact that social norms didn't control me. That ive never really felt a lot pressure to do things I don't want to do because other people feelings towards me don't really affect me that strongly. Likely old comping mechanisms. Recently though I just want to feel normal. Now more than ever as it has cost something I can't really replace. I mean even if I changed and found a new life and a new family, even if I was happier in that regard then now. I still lost someone so very important to me. I think that will haunt me forever.

Oh goodness! You summed it up pretty well, with only a few words. My story is way too long to read. Frankly, I don't think reading my old story could be very helpful. I'd much rather you read what I learned........and what I've continued to learn the past 13 yrs. When I arrived on the board, I was wayward and conducting myself in shameful ways. I was trying to make up my mind to stay or leave. (Let me inject this: I may be wrong, but the way you said that part in the quote, I felt like you were trying to throw that up to me about my H. As if to say, your H didn't get tough, and it took a long time, and you stayed with him.) It's important that you understand that it wasn't my H who was here getting the tools to save the M. You can't look at him as an example of what you need to do. Yes, he eventually backed off and gave me space (which means he stopped applying emotional pressure)........and yes, I stayed with him, but it wasn't b/c he had the sure fire secret to winning back a WW! Over the years, I've had several LBH's ask what my H did to get me to change my mind and stay in the M. They wanted to read my sitch to see how he won me back. Truth is, he was just about as clueless as most other LBH's. He was a kind, good man.....but clueless. But, listen to what I'm saying........he wasn't the one here. I was.

I meant no disrespect, I'm not sure if you felt I kinda understood or your being sarcastic in the first line. But I think maybe I understand better now. Your husband basically got lucky. That you found your own path back and the tough love you got essential came from this forum. I get that your years here have really pointed to tough love being what helps people cheating hit bottom and yes I can look it up. But I am here for support and help, you have no obligation to answer, but you have some understanding my life right now. I would love to hear what you would do in regards to tough love. Im not asking to be told what to do just what you think might have worked best for you in my situation. I will take anything you say as advice not instruction.