A typical Cliche

[sandi2]

Continuing from my previous post.

Okay, I'm going to talk to you like I normally talk to LBH's. I know you are depressed, and I'm honestly not trying to make you feel worse, but if you don't get a real sense of what's actually going on here......you are going to feel much, much worse. So, take a deep breath, and try to see me as a sweet lady who is speaking to her adult son. Actually, I'd be much tougher with one of my sons, but you get my meaning. There are some sweet people here on the board, who are very talented in comforting people. I'm just not one of them. However, my passion to help save a M is fierce, and I will tell you what I've learned through personal experience, observation, and studying the subject of wayward wives for the past 13 yrs. If you don't want to hear what I have to say, just let me know and I won't have a problem with it.

Oh, and just for the record, my M was saved and we are still together. Upon arriving on the board, I identified myself as a W in MLC. I knew I was in some type of crisis, but MLC wasn't the real issue. Anyway, I had someone to talk very straight to me, and now I am trying to pay it forward.

After that I feel like any of my attempts of showing change are mostly ignored, Didn't help that I couldn't stop asking about the group, our relationship, if she noticed things I was doing etc. 3 weeks go by of me continuing to try. During this time my wife agrees to one boundary, while she is still considering what I am working to show her,

She no longer cares about your attempts of showing change. She is not in a position to judge, observe, determine, grade.....or consider what you are working on or how well you're doing. She has changed and so have her feelings about you. The old W is gone, and this one is a whole different breed. Please don't ever ask again if she has noticed, b/c it could draw her disgust. So far, I've not read where she shows her contempt for you, but I'm still on your first post. I'm just warning you, her feelings have changed. You need to immediately stop this type of behavior where you are trying to get good enough for the approval of a cheater. Your W is displaying wayward conduct, and you are making matters worse by appointing her to judge your "attempts of showing change". Remove yourself from the contest of showing her your attempts, and look to another source that will bring permanent growth and joy for life. We can point you in the general direction, but it's up to you to actually do the leg work.

BTW, what was the boundary you keep mentioning?

I keep trying and come last friday I'm having a hard time know that not only has a month now passed since she joined and everyday she is on the group is building closer bonds, when I found it it had been about 2 weeks in only. I confront her with how she feels in a more serious way than I have been. She says that the things I have been doing are great but also that doesn't believe their totally genuine. Even if they are then why now, why not the million other times she asked. Also its not really changing how shes done with me.

I agree with her. The only reason you are "attempting to show change" is to win her away from the app group. When a spouse fears losing the other one, then everything they do is fear based. How long do you think you could last under that kind of emotional pressure? If you aren't educated in how to go about this, then you are spinning your wheels. Currently, I see a LBH who is operating from his emotions. She's doing the same thing, operating from her emotions. If she were to come back now, you'd stop doing the work.......b/c you don't have positive motivation, and don't have a working plan, and you're grasping at straws to please a wayward W........which never works out for the LBH.

You keep referring to how you are trying, but you haven't actually said what it is. Doesn't matter, b/c your old controlling ways override everything else. Can you see it? You might go several days of "trying", and it would only take two seconds of your old behavior to ruin everything you tried to achieve. You have got to change your way of thinking about all of this. DBing is not passive, surrender your b@lls and become a door mat type of approach to saving a M that has a wayward spouse in an A, or multiple affairs. It takes courage, especially if the DBer is a man, b/c the only thing a wayward wife respects is strength. Therefore, everything you do or say needs to be from that view. Strength has nothing to do with controlling her. It has nothing to do with bullying type of behavior or emotional pressuring her. Is there some man you highly admire b/c he knows how to command (not demand) respect from others? He doesn't tolerate cr@p behavior......like someone showing him disrespect, lying to him, double crossing him, etc. He doesn't let someone push him around, and he certainly doesn't beg a woman to stay with him or give him a chance to try harder. He doesn't chase women.......he attracts them. Do you know anyone like this man?

A man should conduct himself in a way that reflects his moral integrity, values, honor, high standards, etc. These provide him a code of conduct for how he lives his life. A man needs to know what he stands for......and why. This helps him to know where he draws the line (boundaries) in love relationships, business deals, friendships, the working environment, etc. His self worth doesn't rely on someone else's feelings about him. A man such as this is self confident, and women can sense his strength........which they admire.

Since the beginning she has told me still cares for me and wants to be friends.

Let me interpret what she told you. If you don't have the stomach for it.......then look away, b/c I'm going to be very blunt with you. She has no romantic/sexual love for you, currently. That time she was hot for sex and pursuing you? It wasn't you that put her in the mood, and I doubt it was b/c she was off work........but rather, it was the other guys in the group. Now maybe that doesn't matter with you, just as long as you got the benefit of sex......I'm just telling you how she feels about you. And when she says she cares for you and wants to be friends......she means she feels like you are her brother. I haven't met a guy yet who wants a woman to think of him as a brother. The good news is that can change when she stops engaging in this other stuff and starts respecting you. That's going to take a little time, but I just want to assure you that once she ends this lifestyle and starts doing the work, her feelings can catch up.

She wants to live here while we sort out our new lives. It is honestly best for both of us financially. She discussed moving out of our bedroom but I haven't allowed it Im just not ready to sleep alone..

You haven't allowed it? Oh, so now you are being the tough guy by saying what you won't allow? But you allow her to engage with a group of cheaters. Your tough talk is slaughtered when you go on to say that you are just not ready to sleep alone.

So let's talk like adults here. There is no "break" or "separation", b/c you are sleeping together. And why is the betrayed H sleeping with his betrayer? B/c the betrayed H isn't ready to sleep alone. Do you know how pathetic that sounds? You sound as if you have some serious problems that have nothing to do with your MR. I don't know what happened in your past, but this has FEAR written all over it. Your excuses of how it is best for both of you to remain together in the house... is as phony as a three dollar bill, so stamp FEAR on it. She will not change, and nothing will be sorted as long as she gets all the benefits of being M to you, without the responsibilities. Think about it.

I hope you will get into therapy. I'm not being snide, I really want you to get help b/c there is a reason you treated her so badly for years, and after discovering her activity on an app that encourages infidelity, you have tried every way you could to excuse it away or give it a label that you can with, even convincing yourself that if she was on a "break" that made you feel better. Come on! She's a M woman, and there is no such thing as taking a break from marriage! An affair is not called a break........it's called cheating. I'll tell you what I was told when I came on board. Every time I tried to pass put the blame on my H, I was told he wasn't responsible for my affair, and that it would have been more decent of me to divorce him, and then find someone else. But I didn't. Instead, I did just like your W is doing! You cannot coddle a wayward wife. You can't snuggle up with her at night, and think she's going to stop returning to the drug of her choice. The only thing I've seen successfully work in WW cases, is when the H applies tough love. IDK, you may not have what it takes, but I want to believe with some help, you can get there. We can't tell you everything in the first few posts. So, you have to think about it like be schooled. Don't act when you don't know what to do. You need to learn some things, then develop a plan.

Every morning she talks with me while getting ready as if everything is fine. We have dinner together, we make decisions about groceries, sometimes even shop together. We spend at least a couple hours each night watching tv and talking. I am still regularly bringing conversations back to us as I don't know what else to talk about. I remind her that even though I'm depressed I am not being negative anymore. That my mind is fully focused on a positive outcome and I want to prove that to her.

This is her benefiting from the M.

I am not allowed to really ask her much about anything other than school, work and what we are doing together. She rarely opens up about anything on her own.

Over the last month she slowly stopped the act. She wont wear a wedding ring at all anymore regardless if we are going to see my or her family. Neither have been told yet. She has finally stopped telling me she loves me when she leaves a literal 12 year habit that has never been skipped before. She never mentions us on her own. So far only 1 friend of hers has been told no one else knows. The group was told she was separated but before she joined, so no hard feelings to anyone for being a home wreaker. A couple days ago she added one of the group members to her regular facebook with all our family. She has become very close to this girl and tells me even if we got back together she would want to fight to keep that friendship.

This is her without the responsibilities. Any questions?

Today I plan to start making phone calls to find a IC.

Oh, thank goodness! Now listen, if you don't feel like it's a right fit, find another IC. Okay?

I think that's a good place to stop.