A typical Cliche

[sandi2]

Hi IIlidin, I'm glad you decided to turn to the DB board for support. Your story struck a close cord for me. One of my loved ones experienced much of the same treatment from her H. I want very much to see you come through this situation as a man who has a healthy self-esteem.

I have known men who were terrible for anyone to be around b/c of their negative mindset, and furthermore, they never had a kind word for their W. If he'll belittle in front of others, I tend to believe it doesn't get any better when they are home alone. I think when a man doesn't feel happy about himself, it puts his MR at risk. He may become more controlling, act out of insecurities and/or jealousy, and become a total jerk.....or worse. Unfortunately, it isn't always confined to his W or when he is home. Some people do it with coworkers, relatives,teammates, etc. It's as if the only way for him to look better, is to put the other person down. Another reason I believe can cause some men to interact with his W the way you've described, is due to the male role model he observed in a relationship during his early life. Maybe it was a father figure or another person the young Illidin watched and learned how to act when he is around his wife.

I feel your W either loved you very much, or else she, too, suffered from a very unhealthy sense of self worth. Perhaps she did not have the best role models either, IDK. Damage has occurred for both of you, however, I believe your M can be saved. It won't happen easily or quickly, but it can heal. IMHO, the MR will not be able to progress very much, until the two individuals heal and grow as separate people. I have seen hundreds if H's arrive on the board and anxiously work to improve themselves. After all, don't we promote making 180's? Yes, but here's the problem with most newcomer H's. By the time he joins the DB board, he is in a situation where his W no longer feels attracted to him, and in most cases I've seen, she has lost respect for him. Therefore, he is pretty much wasting energy by trying to become good enough for her to stay in the M. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying here. If there is any type of abuse, that spouse must stop it immediately and get into therapy. Conquering that problem, is needed whether he's married or not. It goes along with him growing into the person he wants to be. The interactions with his W is naturally better, due no abusive behavior, but it may not win her back. Do you see what I'm trying to say? Fix yourself as a man, before you try to be the H you think she wants. The M is broken and she is in no position to grade your work, due to her own stuff that's going on. Concentrate on the man, and when the man improves, it will naturally overflow into all of his relationships.

This behavior has gone on for a long time. She may name over a long list of things you need to improve as a H. I want you to listen to me carefully. She uses this list to self justify her current behavior. Even if you completely do a 180 degree on her list of complaints, it won't be enough to change how she feels about you as her H. A lot of W's even become angry that the H took so long to correct the things she wanted in him long ago. By now, her heart & mindset has changed, b/c she has opened the MR to include other men. You can't be thinking of yourself improving as a H and "winning her back", b/c it doesn't work that way. Here's how women are wired. They have to respect a man in order to feel those "in love" feelings. When they become man & wife, she has to respect as a man and as her H, b/c her level of desire for him is tied to the level of respect she holds.

So first, you need to focus on what you want to improve in yourself as a man. In other words, try to not attach this personal growth process to whether or not your W will like the improvement. You must do it b/c it's what you want for you. It will not work if you are doing it just to persuade her feelings into staying with you. No matter the future of the MR......you will always live with yourself. You can't escape YOU, so work on the things YOU want to change. You are doing it for Illidin, b/c his negative mindset has dug a deep hole and has caused a lot of unhappiness for him......as well as the W. But here's the thing, Illidin, you can't make another adult happy. Her happiness is her own responsibility. We will get to the interactions and what you need to do within the MR, but let me share this tidbit from the other side of street............currently with your W's involvement in these affairs, it is impossible for you to become "good enough" to win her back. The issues are more complex now, due to her own inappropriate behavior (which is a nice way of wording it).

In the previous years, how this dynamic in your relationship......where you usually acted like a jerk, affect the intimacy? I'm talking back before any of her "stuff" began.

Roughly a month and 2 week ago by my approximation. My wife decided to join a sexy meme group on Facebook it was linked via another meme group shed been apart of for awhile. She says it was all just for fun. But a few days past and suddenly she decides she needs to make up new accounts and emails to rejoin with. Then starts to really get involved with the posts. Responding provocatively posting her own memes engaging everyone she can. A post goes out about joining the group chat which she does.

This is similar to my personal story. The bad news is that she's not going to stop. She's addicted. You could become perfect, and she wouldn't stop turning to the source that brings her this particular brand of excitement. It has nothing to with the man or men, but rather with how they make her feel. Those guys aren't showing their true selves. They know how to play the game, and they tell her how beautiful & sexy she is. It's about the ego food she's fed. The good news is that it's not the end of the world and maybe it's not the end of your M. She will need to face consequences for her actions, and one day something will hit her hard enough to awaken her from the fantasy that surrounds her. We can talk more about that as we go.

When she has a period of time off we normally have a great time. She was very intimate in fact actively pursing me, which is very rare for her, it was great. I was very happy.

So, whenever she is away from her stressful job, she relaxes and is enjoyable with the family? Once she's back at work, the stress comes home with her? You said it's rare for her to actively pursue you and it made you very happy. Do you think it's due to her being away from the work related stress? Was this the first time in a long time she sexually pursued you? One more.........you said it made you happy, so did it affect your negative behavior and how you interacted with her in the following days.....or just until she did something you didn't like?

On the group during this week she is now in the chat and meeting more and more people she is having fun and ends up talking to 2 men more privately, sending photos and sexting. In 12 years my wife has never sent a dirty photo to me.

Okay, so you felt jealous b/c she was sexting and sending inappropriate photos to other men? That sounds like a reasonable human reaction. While we are on this particular subject, during the past 12-13 yrs, have either of you been guilty of inappropriate conduct with someone other than your significant other? Flirting, corresponding with members of the opposite sex, having contact with old girlfriends/boyfriends, excluded and/or secret "friendships"? And, BTW, do you participate in porn? Does she? If you respond to these questions, then I will expound on my reasons for asking.

Later that night she takes a shower but gets dressed in the bathroom. This is the moment that makes everything feel wrong.

That's your gut talking to you. I did the same thing. I stopped undressing in front of my H.

I ask her what know, and she tells me she doesn't want to be together. We fight fro awhile about why and she tells me the things I mentioned in the first block. She tells me that the affair has nothing to do with it.

She admitted to having an affair? With one guy, or more than one? Has it been a skin on skin affair?

We fight into the night, by fight I mean I beg.

Begged her to do what? Stop sexting, end the affair(s), don't leave the M, start sexting with you? These are very unattractive behaviors in a man/husband, Illidin. If it helps, you certainly are not the only H to respond that way. My hope is for you to be determined to learn how a strong, confident man should respond in situations such as this one. We're going to put a plan to paper, okay?

Eventually I get her to change her words and call it a break.

I think this is an example of you wearing her down. You won't let up until she finally has to agree to, at least, part of it. Begging and coercing are extremely unattractive behaviors. When you decide to map out a personal plan to create the new version of Illidin, I hope you will put add this one close to the top of the list. We all have something we need to work on, and some us have a lot more or a lot harder behavior patterns to correct than maybe someone else. You've admitted you do have a need to control, so that's the first step......recognizing & admitting it. Question for you.....during the period you are trying to verbally wear her down so that she will give in to what you want, are you aware in the moment that you are trying to control another human adult?

But she also wont agree to any break boundaries she wont stop the affair etc. She says that maybe she can see us back together if I change.

Why was it so important that she call it a break? Are you talking like a separation? In your viewpoint at the time, who would benefit from this "break"?

My post is too long to address everything I see in your introductory post. I encourage you to read the thread on Boundaries. Boundaries are not ultimatums, and they aren't terms. You set boundaries to protect you......not to control the other person. Boundaries are non-negotiable. It's not open for discussion, b/c it's your boundary. She has free choice to honor your boundary, or ignore it. If she chooses not to honor your boundary, then the ball is in your park. Your mistake was trying to make the boundary about her. You wanted to control her. You can only make boundaries for yourself that protect your feelings. If she dishonors your boundary, then there should be some type of consequence. Know what I mean? Read the thread, it explains better.

I'll have to continue on the next post. (See? You aren't the only one who writes long posts.)

Oh, before I forget to tell you, please don't start sharing with your W all this stuff you pick up on the board. I see LBH's do it, and they think it will have some impact on their spouse. It only tips her that he is getting information from some other source. You are the one here, not her. You are getting the tools to use.......not her. Don't show her your toolbox.