My believe is less words the more the impact. Say things from the heart in person rather than in writing. Do not do things that make you look weak. This is unattractive and turns women off.
Have the lawyer deal with the legal aspect of D. No emotional stuff. Get the pie cut in half as cheap as possible.
My lawyer sent the proposal over, and she is mulling it now, but it sounds like she's agreeable to it. She was awfully quiet yesterday, so I'm guessing it was because of that.
I did find out she has another account she didn't disclose. Or rather, I confirmed she did. She sent statements for a Roth IRA, but her paycheck showed a Roth 401K deduction that was much more than what was going into the IRA. I figured there was likely another Roth somewhere. Then she got a statement in the mail last week from a Roth account, and it was a different place than the other statement I had. Then, I went back through our taxes and found a statement from her employer a couple years ago, which listed her regular 401k, employer contribution, profit sharing, and the roth 401k and the balance at that time. I did some math, and assumed a similar contribution from her paychecks from the time of that statement to when she filed, and did a split of all of our assets to see what she'd owe me. It was higher than what my lawyer suggested last time. But, I still went with a lower number I was comfortable with. While legally, I may be eligible for more (including about 18 months of maintenance on top of what I mentioned), I don't feel entitled to it. She's worked hard and more than carried her share of the financial responsibility.
I'm still baffled by what she feels she's getting out of this. Apparently, a piece of paper from the government and the loss of a bunch of money is going to make her feel better. *shrug*
Well, she was not all that agreeable. I could tell she's been in a bad mood since Thursday. She wanted to know why I felt entitled to more than what she was offering (reimbursement for what I paid for home improvements). I explained about being in a difficult position as someone who be leaving the home (at some point) and about my preference for living in another area (we live close to another state, where my family and most of my friends live), where my money would go much farther on a house, but I was going to be pretty much stuck in this area (unless I want a nightmare commute with our daughter) with a higher financial burden.
She also complained about the request that she pay the settlement within 120 days. She was expecting to pay in monthly installments of $1,000 (though, she said some months would be more, and some less). She said she couldn't make a payment like that in 4 months. She said she didn't have any money. I asked about her retirement accounts, and she said I have more. I asked if she was sure, and she mentioned the ROTH IRA, and I asked about her 401Ks. She said she had one through work, but didn't know how much was in it, and that she didn't get statements. I told her about the statement I found in our taxes from 2 years ago, and the math I did based off her paycheck, and that I could have asked for more. She again asked why I felt entitled to it, and that she should keep what she earned, and I should keep what I earned. I told her, I could understand why she'd think that, but let her know that I'm not the one doing this. I told her she could offer me <a sum much larger than I was asking>, and I'd rather take the option where we are not doing this at all.
Later, she had me watch as she signed into her company account, and she checked her retirement. It currently has a balance that's more than I figured up before. After that, she said, "If you want <amount I asked for>, you can have it, but I can't do it in one payment like that."
She also said she'd be deducting rent, if I ended up staying. Which is fair, but this is the first time she's mentioned it, and I'm guessing the real reason she proposed I stay in the house.
She wanted me to tell her if that's what I wanted right then, and she'd propose that tomorrow. I told her I wanted to think about it, and she pressed on that, asking what I needed to think about. I simply said all of it. This is one thing about her I have always had a problem with. She expects everyone to make a decision on everything right away. She gets upset when people want to think about things before making a decision. Doesn't matter how large of a decision.
So, how do you go about validating while discussing things that you have to move forward on? Things like divorce issues. There's obviously going to be a lot of disagreement, or at least the potential for it.
After she says how she feels about something, where I don't want to do things her way, say something like, "So, you feel that <something> so you'd like for <something else>. I can see why you would feel that way. Would you like to hear how I look at the situation (or, maybe - These are my thoughts on the matter...)?"
So, how do you go about validating while discussing things that you have to move forward on? Things like divorce issues. There's obviously going to be a lot of disagreement, or at least the potential for it.
Hi CaptainN, my girlfriend and I are both divorced. Neither of us wanted nor had any sort of drawn-out discussions with our ex's about the terms. My advice is to skip those. They aren't necessary. They probably won't boost your odds of a successful reconciliation or a strong co-parenting relationship.
My GF and I now have Ls. Once you have a L points of contention tend to be easy: 1. Side A proposes a change. 2. If Side B's lawyer believes Side A would be likely to win the change in court they make it. 3. If Side B's lawyer doesn't believe Side A would likely win the change in court they respond back, "No." Inherent in that "No" is the reality that the party asking for something unreasonable is the only one who would pay a bunch in court.
My GF had more point of contention than me with her ex-H so she also brought in a mediator. The mediator is a neutral party weighing in on the likelihood of getting the change and when the odds were closer to even proposing simpler alternatives either L may have missed.
So, how do you go about validating while discussing things that you have to move forward on? Things like divorce issues. There's obviously going to be a lot of disagreement, or at least the potential for it.
Hi CaptainN, my girlfriend and I are both divorced. Neither of us wanted nor had any sort of drawn-out discussions with our ex's about the terms. My advice is to skip those. They aren't necessary. They probably won't boost your odds of a successful reconciliation or a strong co-parenting relationship.
My GF and I have Ls. I highly recommend engaging a non-litigating L early in the process. Once you have a L points of contention tend to be easy: 1. Side A proposes a change. 2. If Side B's lawyer believes Side A would be likely to win the change in court they make it. 3. If Side B's lawyer doesn't believe Side A would likely win the change in court they respond back, "No." Inherent in that "No" is the reality that the party asking for something unreasonable is the only one who would pay a bunch in court.
My GF had more point of contention than me with her ex-H so she also brought in a mediator. The mediator is a neutral party weighing in on the likelihood of getting the change and when the odds were closer to even proposing simpler alternatives either L may have missed.
Yeah, that's essentially what we were doing, until she asked to talk about things last Sunday. While I like to keep all that through the Ls for the most part, I also see the value of being able to work some details out on our own if possible. Every little email (or worse, phone call) back and forth with the Ls costs money, and a 5 minute conversation could save hundreds of dollars.
While I like to keep all that through the Ls for the most part, I also see the value of being able to work some details out on our own if possible.
My GF and her ex-H did do some side negotiations, but over e-mail with the mediator and/or Ls CC'd. A $500/hr attorney may charge 5-min to read a couple e-mails ($42) or 15-min to skim a whole thread ($125). If you must discuss offline to reduce costs, can you still use e-mail to slow down the negotiation process, reducing emotionality, and allowing both sides time to weigh options and reflect on what's important?
So, how do you go about validating while discussing things that you have to move forward on? Things like divorce issues. There's obviously going to be a lot of disagreement, or at least the potential for it. She asked to talk about things last Sunday. a 5 minute conversation could save hundreds of dollars.
It doesn't sound like this discussion is limited to 5-minute topics that will save hundreds of dollars e.g. deciding which parent gets Halloween vs Easter on even years vs. odd years. Then you wouldn't be worried about validating for contentious topics. If she wants to make a proposal, I'd actively listen, then tell her you need time to think about it. Skip any debating, persuading, etc.
Well, I told her that her proposal didn't work for me, and she got pretty angry. She accused me of robbing her to better myself, and said she felt cheated. She acted like she was some big victim and this thing just happened to her and she didn't see it coming. I just stayed calm and matter-of-factly pointed out that this is all her decision and choice.
She ultimately agreed to the proposal my lawyer sent over before.
No idea who that woman was. It's like I've been dealing with her sister through all of this. The way she is "thinking" is so far removed from how she used to think, and very reminiscent of how I'd expect her sister to deal with things.
Then you wouldn't be worried about validating for contentious topics. If she wants to make a proposal, I'd actively listen, then tell her you need time to think about it. Skip any debating, persuading, etc.