Me 54, H 52, M 31, T34, S30-M, S26apt, D27apt BD1 12/17 ILYBINILWY, BD2 2/20 OW moved out 4/18, moved back 5/18, moved out 11/18
Hello I've read so many wise words on this site. I'm hoping you can help me.
My H is in the stereotypical, total cliche, following the exact script MLC. I think he bought the handbook. It's been the craziest, most painful thing I've ever experienced. Unfortunately, I did not truly know what was happening for a long time. When he went from the most decent, kind, ethical, moral, caring and intelligent human being I've ever met to the complete opposite overnight I went into my own psychological trauma fog. Initially feeling confused and deeply hurt by his actions and words and than angry and panicked. I spun. Everything was so illogical I couldn't believe it was happening. I spent valuable time trying to make sense of it all. To get my husband to see it didn't make sense. He told me he wanted a divorce, not a separation, but a divorce immediately BD2017. Our marriage wasn't perfect but it didn't warrant this. This was insanity. He made me crazy. I started to doubt myself and my perception of our marriage. What kept me sane was our closest friends and our kids perception of our marriage was the same as mine.
At the time, he had 4 other close friends that were leaving their wives. All marriages of 30+ years. I was a friend of 3 of the wives. I believe 2 or 3 of my H friends were also in MLC. My H was the last to leave. At that time, I was supporting my girlfriends, watching how divorce played out with them, taking notes, focusing on protecting myself emotionally and financially, emotionally supporting my kids-all in my own fog. We were all SAHM with executive husbands. All 4 of those divorces were final within months of the husband leaving. All 4 took different paths. All 5 H counseled each other.
I believed in my marriage and my husband. I love my husband unconditionally. I knew I had to stand. Not a popular choice amongst some friends(especially the ones divorcing), family and even my kids. They felt I deserved someone who treated me better. Worried I was in denial. I decided that I wouldn't be bitter and hateful towards my husband. I didn't want to live that way. I didn't want to be that person. I knew he was struggling with something serious even though I didn't understand what it was. I felt bad for him. I have never spoken ill of him to my children. I asked them to show him grace because he was struggling. My instinct was to GAL to make the time pass and fix myself, so I did.
From googling and a few books I knew enough to not pursue him or beg him to come home. I learned he was probably having something called a MLC which was caused by unresolved childhood issues and he would eventually come out of the fog (which I remembered reading as taking 6 months to 2 years-?!? and I had no recollection of reading that an affair is common?!? My foggy brain. ha!). I didn't delve farther for more information. The little I read made sense. I would give him time. I would fix this. I set the timer.
I gave him space and was friendly. He was friendly. I asked my husband to get his hormone levels checked, see a therapist for depression, deal with his childhood trauma-(malignant narcissist neglectful mother, divorce at 11 because dad came out, dad abandoned him for 5 years, after 2 years reunited-dad dies, emotional/physical abusive narcissist stepdad). We went to MC. He told our MC he had a perfect childhood. He told me that all the doctors he went to per my request said he wasn't depressed, or had childhood trauma and that his IC said I was just looking for a reason to not blame myself or our marriage. I saw a IC. I kept my family life and home running as normal as possible for my kids. He disappeared. We would text each other every couple weeks, that turned into every couple months. He would usually only reach out if he needed something. And if I didn't reply right away (we are talking minutes) would ask if I'm mad at him. If we text he would have to go because he was tired. He was always so tired. He was unusually teary all the time too. He sobbed a lot. About every 8+ months I would lose my s@#t and ask him if he's happy. Because, I'd say, I have a right to know if he reached his goal of happiness since he blew up our life and family for it. I'm getting a divorce..'.blah blah blah. Or once it was 'I can't do this anymore. (lots of tears and emotional hurt shared) I need to move on. I'm going to the lawyer...' Or 'why haven't you filed for divorce. you wanted it...' Each time he made a lame excuse why he hasn't. One was that we needed to sell our second home first. He kept dragging his feet about it. I find out from realtor when I asked why it hasn't sold that my H insisted it be listed for a lot higher price than he recommended. In one of my episodes I told him I was going to see a lawyer. He asked if we could just use the same one. I consulted with her. Have her ready to retain if that time comes.The signs are telling me he doesn't want a divorce or is not sure about a divorce. I know I need to stop bringing up the divorce, pushing the divorce along. I'm working on me.
I've learned with all the research I've done during the last 2 months that I was doing some things right, but a lot wrong. I'm sick about it. What changed that I finally found this site and am understanding what a MLC really is about? The OW. I made it clear to my husband that if he had a OW while we were still legally married I would consider it cheating, separated or not. And if he wanted to go in that direction he needed to divorce me first. He had claimed 1/2019 he never cheated on me and that he wasn't even thinking about getting into a new relationship. 2/2020 I found out about OW. He's been taking her on a lavish vacation every month for the last 8 months. Been spending large amounts of $ on her. The seeds for the A were planted in summer of 2017. I'm guessing EA started. She D her H 8/2018 and I'm guessing their PA started after.
2/2020 I asked him if he was seeing someone via text and he never answered. Than a day later when I was shown physical proof I went berserk via text. My text to him included name calling and some I hate you. My largest ever emotional breakdown. (Just for reference-my girlfriends and my mom all thought my text rant was very mild, considering. I never swore and the horrible names I called him were actually true-cheater, liar)(I'm still not proud of my behavior). His response, a day later, was he regrets how he handled things referring to our divorce, it (I'm assuming 'it' is his affair-he's never outright admitted to it) wasn't productive to discuss, I should appreciate he took great pride in keeping it all hidden, I was to stop harassing him and disparaging his character. He said he would no longer read my texts or send me texts and would only communicate through email. I felt like I was being skinned alive. I had anxiety attack so bad I went to the emergency room. I was a complete mess. I told my 3 closest friends and my mom about OW. Not my kids.
I was on a mission to move forward with divorce. I had to push H to schedule an appt. to divide our assets. He dragged his feet with all his usual excuses. We did go 45 days ago. First time I physically saw H in 6 months. He didn't greet me and couldn't look at me. So not him. I know it was all guilt and shame. I was prepared, unemotional and indifferent (which took everything out of me)at the meeting. If I had to speak to H I did. I focused on our planner. H was overly kind towards me about money decisions. Since the February BD I've turned my back on H emotionally. It was very easy for me to do. Something in me just clicked. I lost the desire to reach out to him like I had in the past. No desire to share with him at all. If he emailed me(which was business only) I answered in as few words as I could. Very business-like and matter-of-fact. I never reached out.
I am now NOT pursuing divorce. He doesn't know this. I hope it will go back to how it has been for 2.5years- If I don't mention it, it won't go any further. If he wants it he will have to do all the work.
I got myself through the shock and despair of BD2, researched and read about what is really happening to him and what OW represents. Cringed at all my mis-steps. Amazed at how he follows the MLC script so exactly. Mad at myself for taking so long to get here. I have all Michele's books. And much wisdom here. Had to stop with my IC because of Covid. But spending lots of time caring for myself in other ways. I want back on my Standing platform-and I don't know how to do it. I'm afraid because of my freak-out during BD2 the door is closed.
I have no idea where he is as far as MLC stages. I mean, definitely Replay since 6/2017. I don't see him. My kids and friends have very little to do with him. And they do not share with me anything they do know about him. I don't ask. I have no idea where he is in his MLC process. I know he still had OW 2/2020 which means replay.
2 weeks after BD2 H texts my brother about something random. Hasn't reached out to my brother for 2 years.( I did not know this happened until a week ago.) 6 weeks after BD2 I find out a family friend who was like a mom to me and very special to H had a serious accident. I chose to text him about her accident because, after much consideration, I felt it was the decent thing to do. He responded immediately. He never responds in the middle of the work day immediately. A very empathetic response toward how I must feel. He text he was there to help in anything I may need to do for our friend(she lives out of state), etc. I thanked him and said I appreciate him recognizing how hard her situation is for me and his offer to help. The next day our friend died. I sent him a simple'---passed away this morning' text and immediately he called my phone. (Hadn't called my phone for 9 months+-wait. I don't really know how long its been) Honestly. I was scared to answer. I didn't trust myself to handle it correctly. I was teary and emotional and he was teary and emotional. I made sure our talk was only about our friend. Not me or us. He had no memory of our friends accident details that I sent him the day before in the only text I sent him. So weird. I hung up first, politely, as soon as there was a pause. 10 days ago he sends a text and asks if there is anything he could pick up for me from grocery store(?) (because of Covid isolation-weird) Because he reached out I felt I should give him something. I asked for a couple grocery items and thanked him. He dropped off the items I asked for, plus 2 potted flowers, plus wine. Sent me a text that it all was on the porch and that he added a few things. I'm Flabbergasted. I text him that the items where perfect and the flowers were a beautiful surprise. His LL is AOS. I know not to get my hopes up. It could mean a lot and also nothing. But I let myself enjoy it for the evening. It's the first time he has done anything nice for me in 1.5 years. I'm praying the door is at least now cracked open. I want him to turn towards me when he's through the tunnel. I don't know what the right next step is.
Help me, please.
Last edited by job; 04/17/2007:21 PM. Reason: Removed reference name to another site that is not related to DB
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
I am sorry for the situation you have found yourself in. Please know you are among friends and people who know and empathize with what you are experiencing. The compassionate people here have much hard earned wisdom; this is a good place to have found your way to.
I am glad you have read MWD’s DB and are reading threads of those here. A site you mentioned (I’ll be vague since I believe it is against the policy to state other similar sites) is a good one. However, in my opinion there are many many many other sites that do more harm than good.
You sound like a woman who is willing to do the difficult work of self reflection and personal growth. A woman who realizes this is no quick fix for herself. A woman of sincerity, loyalty, and honour.
If I may, stick around here, this is a good place, a safe place, a place of healing.
Originally Posted by MissnM
I'm praying the door is at least now cracked open. I want him to turn towards me when he's through the tunnel. I don't know what the right next step is.
Help me, please.
M, the door is cracked open.
You control the door. If you have it open a crack then it is.
H, controls if he turns and walks through or not.
The next right step - focus on you.
You have been at this for a while. Your BD1 was two months after my wife’s dropping the bomb; 2 1/2 years, goes quickly and slowly, at the same time.
Don’t beat yourself up over past mistakes or errors. It’s ok. Be gentle on yourself. MLC is a wildly bizarre time to witness and find understanding with.
I will be clear on this (and many other things). “I do believe your H is in MLC.” It sounds like it to me. There is no medical diagnosis, or test, that can be administered to prove it. Lots of people do not believe in MLC. And lots of people have a very wrong idea of what a midlife crisis actually is.
You have lived it, like us here.
Originally Posted by MissnM
I want back on my Standing platform-and I don't know how to do it. I'm afraid because of my freak-out during BD2 the door is closed.
As I said you control the door.
I understand and empathize with your freak-out and melt down during BD2.
You pushed really hard for divorce and yet interestingly here you are, still married or non-divorced if that is a more accurate description. H did not push. 2 1/2 years. Interesting.
Now, focus on you.
You want to get back to standing. That is a worthy and achievable result in my humble opinion. You are no where near beyond hope, as far as I’m concerned.
H needs time and space. You know this and have read it. H will take time and space if it is not given, and he will run over anyone who gets in his way.
One of your goals, and a reason for focusing on yourself, is to allow H time to realize you have not been causing his pain and problems. We know, you are not the cause - his long ago unresolved trauma(s) are the cause - but he doesn’t know that. Hopefully, with time, he realizes you haven’t been around, so you cannot be the cause. Then he looks elsewhere. We hope it is towards himself.
A person in crisis cannot handle pressure. Their emotions are cranked to eleven. Anything emotional is pressure. They cannot handle their own feelings, never mind your’s or anyone else’s.
Let him be. Be cordial. And focus on you.
GAL. Get A Life. Find things to do. Stuff you’ve put off, forgot about, dropped due to marriage and kids and whatnot. Find those fun things again. Try new stuff, see if it speaks to you. It’s pretty amazing the fun new hobbies you might start.
GAL, serves many purposes. It takes your focus off H and places it on you. It helps with you detachment and mental health. It gives you something to do instead of pinning for your spouse. And it allows you to stand easier.
if you pay too much attention to the behaviour of your H, it will eat at you. Yes, we all need a certain amount of understanding to let go and move forward. Your goal is to detach, and find indifference.
I am a strong proponent of compassion for these hurting and lost souls. Compassionate indifference is an excellent thing to strive for.
A lot of the suggested path for an LBS (left behind spouse) is counterintuitive. It will, and does, feel wrong. The advice can at times go totally against what you feel is the right thing to do. For example: begging and pleading - that is not a good thing to do. We all, at first, do that. It is almost instinctive, a reflex, to such a wild and unbelievable change of character in our spouse.
You’ve seen the complete opposite “alien” take over your spouse. That’s quite something, isn’t it?
There is little, to nothing, you can do to speed his journey through what he has to go through. At best your interactions amount to neutral; most attempts at manipulating prolong the MLCer’s journey. And for those that were shook loose out of the tunnel without completing their path, they do return for another time around and it is much worse than the first time.
Your path, the one you find yourself upon. The one that you never wanted to be on. It is an incredible opportunity for growth and contains blessings that you most likely cannot imagine right now. Please, have faith. Listen to the wise and hard earned wisdom of those that have gone before you.
Everything here is for you. It is all for your healing.
And in what may be most counterintuitive, you focusing on you and healing is your best chance at reconciling.
You will survive this. You can heal. That is number one. Reconciliation is a bonus.
Focus on the most important person in all this - you.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
MissnM, I am so very sorry. How hard you were already working to stand and to have another BD after so much time must have been devastating. I can't really add much to what DnJ and Cadet have shared. I am fairly new here, but find that as I read other stories, allow myself to wade through my own life/story, I am starting to have some good moments every day.
Sometimes it feels like these emotions are going to swallow me whole and that I am going to drown in them. It is hard to do anything but think about how to save this M, especially being in lock down with the whole family. But we must find ways to refocus on us.
I am delving into my own shadow side. Looking at what I did during our marriage that I should have done better or where I gave up my own voice to keep the peace. I had what most have called the perfect relationship. We were so in love. We meshed and the affection, passion, and joy we felt in each other was palpable. Finding out about his affair last fall was completely devastating. It still is, to be honest.
But once I figured out he is in MLC, it all started to make sense. Him saying he's been unhappy for at least 2 years, when you couldn't tell from our interactions... well they all rewrite their own script. I do think he was feeling depressed for the past 2 years. He even mentioned it to our friends that we may all be going through a form of MLC... he said this back in late 2017 or early 2018. But it wasn't until his dad passed last march that this started to spiral, ending in the affair over the late summer early fall.
So here we all are, facing what our spouses didn't want and we didn't want. People who were so solid, honorable, loving, kind... probably also conflict avoidant, overly catious with their emotions and wanting a happy home (only).
I know for my H, any negative feelings had to be repressed. We couldn't really feel to deeply or for too long. Problems weren't supposed to be discussed or faced. If it seems like it would stress either one of us out, the converation had to be avoided.
So we did and we lost each other. And here I am, not able to still talk about those things which need to be discussed. But I know it's because he just doesn't have the strength or emotional capacity to deal with it. Like DnJ says, we must treat them with compassionate indifference.
I know he can't be there for me or face his own inner demons. So I have compassion for what he is going through by being detached. Letting him tell me what he wants. I am re-reading about validation and trying very hard not to label his feelings or saying, "I know you feel..." Because I really don't know what he feels or even if he can label it. I may think I know, but really I don't.
Sorry, I've been digressing. Please just know that as you respond to him with listening and validation, that will do more to open the door than anything else. Oh and something else I believe, if you've been married to someone for a long time, they can energetically feel if you are trying to control, fix, or manipulate them. It is imperative we all learn to detach or drop the emotional rope. They must feel free to feel their own feelings. Some moments I am able to do this and some I can't. But we can't appropriately GAL if we are constantly looking at them for their approval or if they need us.
Hope this helps. Blessings!
W (me): 50 H: 46 M: 21 T: 25 S:17 D:15 BD 11/2019
Fate whispers to the warrior, "You can not withstand the storm" And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." ~Unknown
I am truly sorry that you are here...but the entire forum has some great folks posting and providing advice.
First, they tend to have triggers 18-24 months prior to the BD. Evidently he knew his friends were leaving their wives, but did something else happen like a death of a family member or close friend, the loss of a job, a raise w/more expectations from the boss, the birth of a child or even a health issue w/him or you? Once the triggers have their switch flipped, there is no going back for them.
Yes, MLC is all about the trauma from their childhood. They were emotionally stunted at an early age and now have to face their demons from the past and figure out that they were not responsible for what happened. In his eyes, you represent an "authority figure". So, he will lash out at you because you. You do not want to come off as a mother to him.
Second, the stages of MLC are just a guide. The timelines are just a guide because each and every person that goes through a MLC will go through it at their pace and it will take as long as it takes from them to heal. The stages are not linear and they can bounce back and forth in them, i.e., just as a person who is grieving.
For now, focus on you, dig deeper for patience and detach as much as you can. Try to look at him as a roommate and yes, they do become the mirror image of the person you love (exact opposite). Keep your expectations at zero and all times.
Hang in there! You've got this...it just takes time to find your footing.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi MissnM - Just wanted to say sorry you are here and going through BD2. I hope you find the advice and resources so openly shared here as valuable as I do. Big hugs and remember to focus on you!
Thank you DnJ, cadet, believe6 for your understanding and support. A lot of really thought provoking words. I had been obsessing about my behavior after BD2 and how to handle it, for 6 weeks. Since I wrote it all out here I haven't thought about it since. I knew journaling is cathartic. It's even better with validation. I'm so thankful for this platform.
I'm not technology savvy and can't figure out how to put quotes from what you wrote to respond directly to them.
The second bomb drop was horrible for me, yes. My heart still races thinking about it. But, I believe, it was needed for me to find this space of support and learn what is really happening to my husband. And, I've discovered, I will be ok with it if it means it can heal him.
It's been interesting to see now how much of a fog I was in after BD1. I'm sure I read all kinds of things about MLC back then but only retained and acted on a few pieces. I can now see so clearly his gradual slide into MLC before BD1 and my role changing in our relationship to fill in the voids. I was thinking he was overstressed from work so I would make excuses for him and pick up the slack, be a pleaser and fixer than be resentful and disrespectful. I also know that I had my own broken inner child that I had never worked on. Broken people attract broken people. His BD1 sent my abandonment issues, etc. into a tailspin and I shut down. Which sent me to my IC-(the best thing that could have happened for me). My IC told me I was experiencing my own psychological trauma from BD1.
I did know at the time that his personality became the opposite of the man I knew, yet I would still apply the old H morals and values to his new behavior. For example-I would discover something really questionable, when I asked him about it he would give me an explanation and I believed his explanation because he was never a liar. My mom and friends would say 'red flag-I think he's lying' and I would state inequitably 'he is not a liar, that's not who he is' or 'he would never do that to me'. I would even defend my husbands behavior to my IC. I now know every one of those questionable events, he did lie to me.
I can also now clearly see the dysfunction in our M relationship. We appeared to our kids and our closest friends that we had this strong, envious, loving relationship. I believed it too. In truth, we both struggled horribly with communication. He would stuff, run and avoid conflict, I would obsess, assume, please and avoid. Unresolved issues piled way up. We knew nothing about validation.(OY!)
What is so obvious and clear to me now was absolutely not clear than. I try to remember that when I think about him being in and coming out of his MLC fog. He can't see what is so obvious now just like I could not see what was so obvious then. I wouldn't even listen to the people closest to me that I knew loved me best when I was in my own fog. I can remember thinking 'why would they say that? what am I not seeing?' But still did it my way. I understand why he won't listen to me now. The brain tricks and lies to protect you. That's for sure.
I know that I am a stronger, wiser, healthier person today than I was before this started. I know there is a lot more I can learn about myself and do for myself. I still cry everyday for my husband, our family and our marriage. But it's not in Target anymore. Or during Easter dinner. Some days I flip his picture frame down, sometimes I flip it up. I still only sleep on my side of the bed. But I sleep all night. I still keep his shirt under his pillow. Grief is a process. I am in a position where I don't talk to him or see him hardly at all. I like it and I hate it. I miss him. I don't need him.
I don't feel qualified to give anyone advice or my opinion in relation to MLC. But I can commiserate with what they might be feeling. And with how hard and outright depressing this is to live with. My heart breaks knowing the devastation you have been facing. I find Covid is making it especially hard to move forward by forcing me to sit still.
I have this affirmation by my bed, at my desk, on my refrigerator. I love it. I read it at least once a day.
I accept I can't change what happened. I accept my husband is not there for me. I understand my husband is struggling and dealing with his struggles in a destructive way that has nothing to do with me. I believe my husband will come home. Not today, not tomorrow, but one day soon. And I will be patient. I am not perfect. I have looked at everything I've done and am doing and am working continuously to be the best me I can be. I do this for myself, for my kids, for anyone who comes into my sphere of reality. Because I love myself and want others to treat me with kindness always. So in return, If I want kindness from others, this is what I give. (unknown)
Job Yes. Lot's of triggers in that timeframe -H turned 50 -H mentor (father figure) died unexpectedly -H who's very active and healthy had a heart problem/ablation surgery -passed up for promotion/title he should have had(huge depression). They realized their mistake and gave it to him 9 months later(large stress) -Empty nest -S1struggles -S2marries -D moves across country -BFmoved across country
I have to say this is the first time I've appreciated the unimaginative side of him-he's definitely textbook, easy to diagnose. Right done to ILYBINILWY-he said it, And 'I've worked hard my whole life to support everyone else...'
I think MLC is catchy, so all the friends getting D-could not help a person who is already confused
You wont know if what he is doing is a hopeful sign toward reconnection or just an act of kindness to relieve guilt and open a door for friendship
I would lean back..If he is thinking of reconnecting, I believe he will find you,,he will find a reason to text you
if he initiates contact, I would take my time and respond as a new friendship keep it light and fun keep expectations at minus zero I would not contact him for anything
learn about feminine energy and see if it resonates with you lean back ask nothing go about your life energetically let go..try not to obsess find happiness, hobbies and self care join groups online
Its been a long time you have been at this, so you have already let go
let him feel the energy is focused on a new life,,a new start ect.. a new you
even if it is reconnection, it seems to have lots of bumps and can take a very long time decide how long you want to be here
Many Mlcers stay with the oW for a long time...some never leave
I think much of it depends on what happened with his parents and if one of them had a MLC and ever came back to M then I think chances are better for reconciliation
just my thoughts
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Thank you Kindly I'm sad I have this in common with you and you with me. Ugh. Just knowing there are people that understand MLC exists and what I'm going through has been invaluable to me. I'm lucky to have great support from 3 close friends and my mom. I tell them he's going through a MLC and they are supporting that and me but I'm not so sure they are believing that. Plus. I'm exhausted hearing about my own situation. I know they have to be burned out. When I'm with them I just want to have fun and forget about it. I'm glad I found this spot. I already feel supported hugs
