I have struggled with suicidal thoughts since I was a teenager. I had never told that to anyone until after my wife of 23 years told me she was leaving because I was not emotional available to her. She was absolutely correct. I wasn’t. I spent years hiding this part of myself from her out of fear. Fear that she would leave me if I told her, fear that she would think it was because of her (it wasn’t, these thoughts had followed me since I was young), fear that she would be repulsed by someone who had suicidal thoughts. In hiding these thoughts, it did what I never wanted to do, push her away. There were times I would be able to push the fog away, but I was never truly honest with her, which meant the fog was never really gone and would eventually come back. After my confession, I felt free. The weight of these hidden thoughts were gone. I didn’t have to hide, I was out in the open, exposed and it was the most freeing event in my life. I knew that it was common for some people to have suicidal thoughts and never act on them, but I was determined to hide mine and in doing so, created a schism in our marriage.
I started IC and we started Marriage Counseling together. At first I thought all this was my emotional distance, that she does not want to continue our marriage out of fear that the fog will return. I thought she was worried that this is a temporary moment of clarity and that I will slide back into my old patterns and once again be hurt. She is not open to putting herself out there anymore. I have explained this is different, there has never been a moment in my life when I have felt this clear mentally. I'm exercising every day, I've lost my beer gut and honestly look and feel really good, something I haven't in years.
But now I'm getting the ILYBNILWY speech. Our kids are older, but still living with us right now. Two will be moving out later this year and our youngest is 16. She says he is older, doesn't need us as much and will be fine. I'm assuming this is the empty nest syndrome.
This conversation has happened a few times:
Me: I understand that you’re unhappy, that's why I'm saying we should work on the marriage.
Her: No… I just need space.
Me: Does that mean you want a separation/divorce?
Her: Yes? Hmm. Well, no, I don’t think so. Maybe… Not right now. I just need space.
Me: So you want to stay together, but you don’t want to work on the marriage? What DO you want?
Her: I don’t know what I want right now.
I'm 100% willing to work on myself and this marriage to be the best version of myself to her. She doesn't seem interested in working on the marriage or herself. All she talks about is going out with her friends. She doesn't want any physical contact, I get a hug maybe once a week, but nothing else.
I'm wondering now, if she is going through a MLC. My depression pushed her to this, but as I work on my depression and want to work on the marriage she is not interested.
She has talked about separation, but she won't say divorce. We can't separate right now due to financial reasons, plus COVID.
I leave her notes, telling her I love her or how beautiful she is. They are not mentioned and I'm assuming are thrown away. I'm lost as to what to do.
H (me): 48 W: 43 M: 23 T: 24 D:21, S:19, S:15 BD 2/2020 Still living together and going to MC
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D32,S31
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I'm wondering now, if she is going through a MLC. My depression pushed her to this, but as I work on my depression and want to work on the marriage she is not interested.
She has talked about separation, but she won't say divorce. We can't separate right now due to financial reasons, plus COVID.
I leave her notes, telling her I love her or how beautiful she is. They are not mentioned and I'm assuming are thrown away. I'm lost as to what to do.
Welcome! I am sorry that you are here. Don't blame it all on you, you can never know for sure that you were the only problem in her life. My H has depression, and yes.....when we were still together it was mentally draining for me as well. He was the only thing in my life that was bringing me down and I wanted to be around him less and less. But I didn't leave him, I didn't quit.
First of all, keep working on yourself. If you are struggling with depression, then you have to take care of that for YOURSELF first. Give her time and distance to figure her stuff out. Time is on your side, use it wisely.
Thanks. Yes, I'm working on me, the only thing I can control. Counselling has really helped me see my blind spots. I saw this the other day on another MLC site - time + consistency + trustworthy = trust. This only way to "win her back" is showing that I've changed and am working on depression and being a better husband.
H (me): 48 W: 43 M: 23 T: 24 D:21, S:19, S:15 BD 2/2020 Still living together and going to MC
Read Sandi's 37 rules. Then read them again. And again.
Couple things:
1. Stop with the love notes. This falls into the "do not beg, plead, etc." rule. Also, in general, now is a good time to avoid anything in writing. If you feel any urge to pour your heart out in writing to your W, don't. I can't emphasize this enough.
2. Give her the space she asked for. You aren't going to nice her back right now. You're going to feel impatient. This is going to be hard. Buckle down and weather the storm and take all pressure off. No R conversations. No asking her to clarify if she wants to work on the marriage.
3. Keep working on you. It's great you are in IC (hopefully with COVID you are still able to go or at least attend video sessions). Do this for you. Don't make a show of your improvements.
Most importantly, look at this as an opportunity, a gift, for you to get a handle on your mental health. Whatever happens in your MR, you have an incredible opportunity to transform your life and become a happier, healthier, person.
She's been married to you for 23 years. She thinks she knows you. She's going to think any changes you make are temporary and won't stick. It's going to take time to turn things around. Keep focusing on yourself. You can do this.
Good for you in admitting your suicidal thoughts. I know how freeing that is. That is an excellent step.
From what you stated, you confessed to W, after she dropped the bomb about wanting to leave because you were emotionally unavailable.
You know and feel different and are trying to prove that to her. You need to stop trying to prove it, and just be it. Living it is the best proof. She will see it.
She is giving you the ILYBNILWY speech. Pull back on the pressure - pull way back.
Originally Posted by Tmason
This conversation has happened a few times:
Me: I understand that you’re unhappy, that's why I'm saying we should work on the marriage.
Her: No… I just need space.
Me: Does that mean you want a separation/divorce?
Her: Yes? Hmm. Well, no, I don’t think so. Maybe… Not right now. I just need space.
Me: So you want to stay together, but you don’t want to work on the marriage? What DO you want?
Her: I don’t know what I want right now.
T, stop the pressure or your going to push her right out the door.
A few things for you:
She feels you are emotionally distant and unavailable. Your first line is exactly that. You do not understand what she feels. People in crisis or emotional distress don’t want to be understood - they just want to be heard. You are telling her she is unhappy.
Try - I’m sorry. Or, I’m sorry you feel unhappy. If she has mentioned being unhappy.
That’s it. Nothing about working on the marriage. And especially not “you’re unhappy, that's why I'm saying we should work on the marriage”. That is presuming her happiness and unhappiness is based upon the state of the marriage. No, her happiness and unhappiness is from within, not from external stimuli like marriage.
Steer clear of that pitfall. it is emotionally un-listening and wrongly equates her feelings to your marriage. Something you don’t want. She will project more than enough all on her own, you need not provide fodder.
- - - - Her: No… I just need space.
Me: Does that mean you want a separation/divorce?
Her: Yes? Hmm. Well, no, I don’t think so. Maybe… Not right now. I just need space.
Me: So you want to stay together, but you don’t want to work on the marriage? What DO you want? - - - -
Listen to her.
What does she want? Space!
Give her time and space or she will take it.
If you don’t want a separation or divorce, stop mentioning it. Quit asking about it. Every time you do, it reinforces her feelings a bit more. Give her space and time to allow her feelings to subside, so she can look inward to see what is really causing her emotional stress and pain.
She actually is saying she doesn’t want a D. She doesn’t think so. This is good. Let it be. Let her be. Focus on you.
Do stop with the notes as well. She doesn’t mention them, and they will appear needy and desperate. As hard and as counterintuitive as this sounds - she doesn’t want or need to be reminded of you right now. She needs space to find herself and realize she still loves/likes you. Sorry, you cannot force this, it speed it up. She is in her time line and it will be a lot slower then you want.
Focus on you and your kids. Be kind and cordial to W, and respond to and basically mirror back whatever she is willing to discuss. Most times it will be small stuff, which is just fine. Be careful and do not engage in relationship talks right now.
Originally Posted by Tmason
I'm 100% willing to work on myself and this marriage to be the best version of myself to her. She doesn't seem interested in working on the marriage or herself. All she talks about is going out with her friends. She doesn't want any physical contact, I get a hug maybe once a week, but nothing else.
I'm wondering now, if she is going through a MLC. My depression pushed her to this, but as I work on my depression and want to work on the marriage she is not interested.
For now, take working on your marriage out of the equation.
Yes, 100%, work on yourself.
She doesn’t seem interested in working on the marriage or herself. This is common. People in emotional turmoil suffer from depression. She will not be able to work on the marriage until she heals herself.
If this is MLC, and it may be, then this is a marathon not a sprint.
T, you have the gift of time, use it wisely.
Focus on you and the kids. Read the homework and threads around here. There are many wise and compassionate people here with much hard earned wisdom.
I think it is good that you are going to IC. Do you find it helpful?
I am less sold on the benefits of MC until both parties have turned back and want to commit again. IMHO, and from my experience, most counsellors do not understand nor do they believe in MLC. Most parrot back whatever the person says, and when that person is convinced themselves of their “new” life and how bad the old one was - the professional puts the seal on it. Professional validation - a MLCer’s best enabler.
If W suggests maybe not continuing MC, go along with her idea.
Changes need to be small and softly implemented. It works best, if they actually suggest the change.
Again, I am sorry you find yourself here. I hope you take the advice with all the compassion it is given with. I remember how harsh things sounded when I first arrived.
Stay strong. Hope to talk again soon.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thanks for all the advice. I'll stop the notes, but it does seem counter intuitive as it was something she mentioned. When we first were dating, we both wrote letters/notes to each other. Over time that stopped. So I thought starting that again would help, but if it's making it worse, I'll definitely stop.
------Be careful and do not engage in relationship talks right now.
This is difficult since we are still going to Marriage Counselling. The counselor gives us homework to do, Marriage Meetings, had us make a list of the years and the good times and bad, etc. W is on the fence about it, she does it, but not as enthusiastic as I am.
I'm seeing a counselor which is very helpful for my depression. I've been seeing him for about 2 months now, the past few have been through video due to the virus, but have been very helpful and freeing. I do feel like a weight was lifted off my shoulders by finally admitting my suicidal thoughts. I'd never told anyone, ever, and it was as if it doesn't hold any power me anymore. Do the thoughts still creep in? yes, but I have tools now to handle the thoughts so I don't go into that hole anymore.
W has separate counselling with our Marriage Counselor. She had one yesterday and she talked about it with me after, which was good. She talked about how she feels like she is at a crossroads and needs to make a decision with her life. She said she doesn't want to live alone, she hates being alone. She said she is just very wary of me slipping back into depression and doesn't want the pain of me being emotionally unavailable again. She is struggling with forgiving me, because she knows that if she forgives, then she has to try in the marriage again. But if she holds on to the resentment and unforgiveness, then she can walk away.
So I don't think her MLC is as bad I thought. I think she doesn't trust that any changes in me will last. I know that this will take time. It's good to have a place to come to for support.
H (me): 48 W: 43 M: 23 T: 24 D:21, S:19, S:15 BD 2/2020 Still living together and going to MC
