Caught between a rock and a hard place

[sandi2]

Hey Youngson, glad to see you hanging in there. I wanted to respond to a couple of things in your recent posts. The first one is on the subject of pursuer and rewarding.

I'm really trying to balance some of the principles of DB-ing with pulling myself out of the "pursuer" mode. I definitely don't want to come across as eager or too accessible to her. But, I'm also realizing my way of being in the relationship in the past has left her no room to actually pursue me. Since she is the withdrawer, I want to make sure I am "rewarding" her actions that pursue me. Hopefully I've said this in a way that makes sense. I don't think DB-ing is at all out of line with what I'm saying. I think I'm asking for others thoughts on how rewarding my wife's pursuits of me fit with DB-ing.

Have you read that you should reward her when she pursues you? I know the board is quick to point out pursuing actions to LBH's.....b/c some guys don't realize they are actually pursuing.

Why do you feel you should "reward" her actions that pursue you? What pursuing actions are you talking about?

Let's try something. Instead of using the verb "pursue", let's substitute it with "pressure". Speaking from the W's point of view, she withdraws whenever she feels emotional pressure from you. The more pressure she feels from you, the further she moves. Now, unfortunately, some men have this idea that if they continue pursuing.....I mean, applying emotional pressure.....the W will eventually wear down, and he'll finally be rewarded. If that should describe you, please consider putting a fast halt to that behavior right now. I think the biggest area that this pursuing and withdrawing examples are seen in the couple's sex life.

Perhaps you chased her during your initial dating period, and you were "rewarded" by her accepting dates with you. However, the game has changed now. If you stop applying emotional pressure, how will you ever get what you desire? Isn't that what worries you? Why do you think the "withdrawer" controls the relationship? How do you stop that dynamic?

Things have been going really well over the last 2 weeks. Much better communication. I have continued to improve myself and regained mental stability and confidence. Detachment and validation have been a godsend for me. I am so thankful to have all the resources this board provides. These 2 skills alone have helped me avoid jumping back in to the death spiral we have been in for a long time.

That's great! Did you know that male confidence ranks in the top priorities that women find attractive? (That includes WW's.) I encourage you to listen to motivational tapes, give yourself pep talks, etc., to keep a healthy level of self confidence. Focus on your male confidence, instead of focusing on how to pursue your WW. Male confidence works like a natural magnet. You just need to know how to handle it.

Over the last week, W has initiated time together and phone conversations regularly. She's even started to come to me for support when stressed like she used to. Yesterday, she sought me out to process a very stressful work situation. Last night, she confided in me about some very difficult things she's dealing with emotionally. We talked for about 2 hours and it was very positive.

I want to caution you about her using you as her personal counselor. She will friend zone you, if you are available whenever she has the need to talk about her problems. The unsuspecting H thinks they are getting closer b/c she's calling often to bend his ear about poor little her. Sorry, but she doesn't have the hots for him, she's using him like a girlfriend. If that's fine with him......okay, but he needn't expect the relationship to shift to having sex.

One sign that usually indicates she's having a pity-party +1, is when the conversation is all about her. Now, should she show as much interest in you as in herself......maybe it isn't a pity-party. Is half the conversation about your personal life, and does she ask questions? Or can you tell she's quickly bored if the subject is on you instead of her?

I woke late and arrived later than planned. She went into a rage about this. Went straight to cancelling plans for the day/weekend. Rewriting how things have been for the last month.

No surprise there! WW's are filled with anger toward their H, and the minute he does something that suggests it's not all about her.....that anger blazes. So much for all those hours of listening to her pity-party!

It really felt like a setback. I apologized for being late I told her she needed to talk calmly to me, especially in front of our son and that I would not fight with her. She said bye to S, and I left. This is where detachment and validation come in. I had to fight very hard with myself to not text or call her to try and repair and get things back "how they were." I just went home and played with S.

You need to learn a lesson from this experience, and it won't be a setback. First of all, you did not intentionally try to pi$$ her off. Secondly, you apologized for being late. Thirdly, why the heck did she offer to make a pot of coffee, if you were already late in picking up S? There was no appointment she had to leave to attend. She was just going to work around the house.........or so she said. Was this your normal day to pick up S, or were you doing it so she would have time to do stuff at home? She tore into you b/c you didn't dance like she wanted you to do.

As best that I can tell, you handled it pretty well. I like that you told her to speak to you calmly in front of S. Next time, use the word "respect" (instead of calmly) you in front of S. I'm not sure what you mean by this is where validation came in. But I give you points for not calling and trying to repair things. She reacted very badly, so don't jump and try to fix things. She needs to own her bad behavior.......not have you always trying to make things nice again. That is not helping a WW, whatsoever. Are you aware that a woman knows exactly who she can shred apart with her angry reactions? It's the man who tries to soothe the situation and calm her down. She has no respect for this guy. None! She'll continue to blow up on him whenever something doesn't suit her, b/c she knows there will be no backlash.

I just went home and played with S. She asked for an update on him and I responded. Continued to give space.

She didn't need an update on him! Was he running a fever or throwing up? Does she not trust you to take care of him? No, she was temp checking you! And, you responded, so that was her signal to call.

Question.........how do you respond and give her space?

A few minutes ago, she texted me saying she was very sorry about her reaction and knew that her interpretation of my being late was wrong. She talked about some of the things she was feeling and stated she knew they were irrational.

Let me tell you a little secret. She knew at the time she was bashing you, but she was mad and knew she could get away with it. And......as usual, it's all about her.

I thanked her for the apology and just validated her feelings.

What did you say to validate her feelings?

Whether or not our weekend plans resume, I don't know. I will see her one way or another later today when she picks up S. I'm hopeful continued detachment and validation will stop us from going back into that horrible cycle. I'm thankful to this community for giving me the skills to pull myself out of it. In the past I would have gotten drawn into a fight then pursued her to repair things. It's so difficult to stop myself from pursuing her, but it has allowed her the space to see things more clearly and move toward me.

Well, the weekend is over now, so maybe I shouldn't say anything. I don't want you getting confused over what I'm saying. I am not telling you to get pulled into her drama and/or fight with her. Neither do I feel you should turn into Mr. Fix-it when she disrespects you (especially in front of your son). You are showing him how to be a man!! I don't know how long you hung around when you went to pick him up, but if you immediately left upon her angry outburst......then you did the right thing. If this ever happens again, I don't think you should be so ready to listen to her apology and another couple hours of her talking about her favorite subject......herself. I'm just saying an apology is not a license to do it again.

Next time, I suggest you be prepared to state a boundary (but only if you can back it up). Something like, "An apology has no value if the action doesn't stop. I will not continue allowing my son to witness his mother verbally disrespecting me. If it happens again, I will stay in the car and wait for S". Then you immediately leave, hang up the phone, or whatever. Don't keep talking with her. You state the boundary, firmly, and end the conversation. No negotiations!

Sorry, but you aren't detached.....and you aren't giving her enough space. You are on the phone for hours, and you are spending family time together.......so where is the space? Maybe you are better than you were, but you are a long way from being emotionally detached. You are so afraid you're going to lose her. That's why she lashes out at you, b/c she smells your fear. Stop fretting that you'll have a setback! This thinking will turn you into a wimp. You are one of these guys who is only focused on getting her back! What do you have if she comes back? Well, I'll tell you. A she-devil.......that's what you'll have.

It's so difficult to stop myself from pursuing her,

Why in this world would you pursue any person who doesn't have the same feelings as you, and who won't treat you well? Can you just explain that type of thinking to me? IDK if it is due to low self-esteem, or if it's arrogance. Maybe I give men too much credit for being the more "logical thinkers", b/c this makes no sense to me.