Okay - not my job to carry convo. My silence speaks more??? I was afraid it made me look bitter?
He doesn't like to be around you right now. May even be repulsed. That's what you're dealing with for the time being. Think about someone you can't stand to be around that wants to go out with you, picture them in your mind trying to start conversations with you all the time, put themselves in front of you. You would HATE it, right? All that desperation and neediness is NOT ATTRACTIVE. THAT is how your H feels right now. I am sure that hurts to hear, but what we keep telling you is it CAN and WILL change with time. It's a temporary thing. But it will be that way for months and months. Until then you really should avoid convos, avoid being around him, avoid texting, avoid phone calls. That is the ONLY way he will ever learn to miss you.
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My concern is that maybe he has more contempt and anger because "I'm not letting him go" as he stated on the phone the other day. Wearing my ring is showing I have hope the M can be saved and he is adament it cannot be saved.... it's done. If he saw my ring off... he might wonder where I'm at? he might be curious.
He is completely right, you're not letting him go. You are desperately clinging, hoping beyond hope that he will change his mind. And you want him to change it NOW, not later. All your words, actions and behavior are telling him this. So if you take the ring off guess what he will think? "Ha, so predictable, trying yet another trick to try and get me to change my mind. Look at her staring at me, waiting for a reaction. She wants so bad for me to ask why she took it off. She's so pathetic." SO LEAVE IT ON.
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Isn't that the same as dressing nicely, make up and perfume... you are trying to evoke a response. That's not a trick correct?
It depends on your motivation. If you do it for YOU then it's not tricks. If you do it for HIM then it's tricks. And he will absolutely know the difference.
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I should have NOT said this but I did share with him on the phone earlier this week that "you should know I had plans for you, me and that bike this summer... its hard to see it go"
Tricks.
Well that was down right honesty... I had plans. I failed to share them with H before BD... I was waiting for nicer weather and say 'hey, let's go here'.
Truth or not, why bring it up NOW of all times? Because it's tricks (or call it "techniques" if you find the word tricks offensive). Please see it for what it is. Please try to understand your motivations and above all, quit justifying things that you should not be doing!
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UGH... its hard enough to focus on months... let alone years. You feel he may take years?
It was for me. It was about 3 years before my XW started warming up again and sending signals she might be interested in recon. I however, was not. So I never let it go anywhere. But it might be less for you, or it might be never. I wish we could tell you what to expect but we just can't. I'm going to post some lines from the movie Swingers that really nails it. You have to let him go before he'll want to come back. And not PRETEND to let him go, but really let him go. And when you do, you may not want him back. That's the irony.
MIKE But you said I shouldn't call if I wanted to give up on her.
ROB Right.
MIKE So I don't call either way.
ROB Right.
MIKE So what's the difference?
ROB The only difference between giving up and not giving up is if you take her back when she wants to come back. See, you can't do anything to make her want to come back. You can only do things to make her not want to come back.
MIKE So the only difference is if I forget about her or pretend to forget about her.
ROB Right.
MIKE Well that [censored].
ROB It [censored].
MIKE So it's almost a retroactive decision. So I could, like, let's say, forget about her and when she comes back make like I just pretended to forget about her.
ROB Right...or more likely the opposite.
MIKE Right... Wait, what do you mean?
ROB I mean first you'll pretend not to care, not call - whatever, and then, eventually, you really won't care.
MIKE Unless she comes back first.
ROB Ah, see, that's the thing. Somehow they don't come back until you really don't care anymore.
I'm familiar with the movie... it was still a good read again though.
I hope I can get through Sunday. The weather is supposed to be awful that day.
I will be cordial. I will not start conversations. I will not ask him any questions.
When he left on Wednesday he was telling me how to handle the grass issue in the back yard. Then stated if I got hinges he would fix the gates. I said I would have no idea what type of hinge and would probably get the wrong ones so not to worry. He said he would go pick some up and try to get it done on Sunday.
Also, when he was driving my car on way back to the house he took a minute and then said - you need to go get your rear brakes checked. Discussed his recent car repairs - his breaks and now he needs new shocks $1100. I really wanted to say is the truck worth that? He had been wanting a new vehicle and this one is starting to cost him alot. BUT, I kept my mouth shut and just listened. I'm not the person he wants to discuss his issues with.
He was trying to be friendly???... Ultimately the comments he was making were more of "see how great my life is now"... now that I don't have this commute and I have a social life "my life is really great".
AS - you are right. He isn't missing me... thinking about me... he is annoyed by be... disgusted by me... Sunday is going to be tough day for sure.
I will be cordial. I will not start conversations. I will not ask him any questions.
Perfect!
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When he left on Wednesday he was telling me how to handle the grass issue in the back yard. Then stated if I got hinges he would fix the gates. I said I would have no idea what type of hinge and would probably get the wrong ones so not to worry. He said he would go pick some up and try to get it done on Sunday.
WAS's are weird like this. I think it's some guilt, they realize they are hurting us so this is their feeble attempt to make up for it. My XW dropped the bomb right before my bday and got me nothing. Then a few weeks later she bought me an expensive tool set for Father's Day. Of course I tried to dissect that move and figure out what it meant, but there's no figuring it out.
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He was trying to be friendly???.
The more you can back off and remove pressure then the more friendly he will be. I think Job said it earlier but if you just go along with their desire to leave then they will be more cordial and friendly because they no longer feel the need to push you away.
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.. Ultimately the comments he was making were more of "see how great my life is now"... now that I don't have this commute and I have a social life "my life is really great".
I doubt it's so great but he's probably trying to convince himself it is.
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AS - you are right. He isn't missing me... thinking about me... he is annoyed by be... disgusted by me... Sunday is going to be tough day for sure.
It'll be tough. I'm sorry you have to go through it. And you will feel sorrow afterwards for a while. But I think you'll start feeling better after that, you'll start getting used to it as your "new normal". I know it's little consolation now but some day you will look back at all this and wonder how someone had so much control over your emotional state. You'll be stronger, more independent, more self-sufficient. You'll wonder that you reacted as emotionally as you did. Time works wonders, it really does. Try to give yourself the gift of time.
When I mentioned having something in the oven that will fill the room w/a pleasant aroma...that is not a trick. It is to leave him w/a pleasant memory of your cooking...nothing more. Cooking something delicious is not to encourage him to sit down and eat w/you...but rather...a positive thought of what he's leaving behind...a darn good cook.
As for dressing nicely and wearing perfume, that is for you to make you feel better and more confident when he arrives. It also will provide him w/a pleasant memory of how you looked and smelled. No trick to win him back, but you do want him to leave w/positive thoughts of what he's leaving behind...not negative ones, i.e., the same applies to conversations.
The things that I mentioned to do are not to win him back...but leave him w/positive thoughts in spite of the fact he's very negative now. Answer this...if you were in a room w/someone who was a negative Jane...would you have positive thoughts about her when you left again? Not likely.
Dressing nicely states that you are taking care of yourself and have pride and respect for yourself. You can put on a nice pair of jeans and top and look fantastic or you can put on old painting jeans and look like a slob...which would you prefer to be remembered by?
Please try to remember, this is a business deal now and truly no one wins, but you sure can protect yourself the best way possible when it comes to the division of the assets.
As for your MIL, I find it interesting that all of sudden she's texting you quite a bit. Maybe she's aware that he son has moved out and wants to her your side of the story. However, I would stick to just answering her questions about the animals, neighbors and work. I wouldn't discuss what is going on w/her because blood is thicker than water and right now, this situation is just between the two of you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I'm doing lots of journalling. I'm listening to audiobooks on subjects I would not normally pick up. Reading lots of M books and communication books.
I'm okay ALOT of moments... but then I suddenly have this stupid thought "he isn't taking any of the furniture... that's because she is moving in with him... they will have her furniture in his new house"
Totally stupid I know. Because what if anything can I do about it - nothing. Maybe if I knew he was moving her into the house from the get go I could finally get disgusted by all this for good and be done???
I can't focus on that I know. Keep focusing on me... and do whatever it takes to hold it together on Sunday.
I do agree with Job about leaving a positive impression, the point I'm trying to make is the difference between doing things like that to leave a positive impression on him and doing them as tricks to try and lure him back is all about expectations. If you can do those things with no expectations that it'll change anything, and with the understanding that you are just doing it for yourself and to leave him with a lasting impression that may have an effect on him down the road, then that is the right motivation. Just don't do them with expectations- like watching him closely to see if he notices or says anything or acts different. Because that's the path to disappointment and is also pressure on him at a time he wants no pressure. I hope my earlier comments weren't too confusing on this.
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I'm okay ALOT of moments... but then I suddenly have this stupid thought "he isn't taking any of the furniture... that's because she is moving in with him... they will have her furniture in his new house"
My ex was VERY quick to get a house. Rented first and then soon after bought one. I remember thinking she was doing it to set up house with OM (it's a pretty big house). It did get to me but eventually I just didn't care anymore. I knew who OM was and he was a nice guy, always friendly towards the kids (has none of his own) so as long as they were safe it just really didn't matter and honestly wasn't my business. Well guess what, here we are 8 years later, two kids grown and moved out, that OM now relegated to "distant friend" status and no new OM since. Mostly just XW alone in her huge house with S there every other week.
A big life lesson that BD and the aftermath taught me is the things I worry about rarely if ever come to pass. The things I don't worry about are the surprises life throws at me. So I really don't worry anymore, worrying is just a waste of energy better spent elsewhere.
I do agree with Job about leaving a positive impression, the point I'm trying to make is the difference between doing things like that to leave a positive impression on him and doing them as tricks to try and lure him back is all about expectations. If you can do those things with no expectations that it'll change anything, and with the understanding that you are just doing it for yourself and to leave him with a lasting impression that may have an effect on him down the road, then that is the right motivation. Just don't do them with expectations- like watching him closely to see if he notices or says anything or acts different. Because that's the path to disappointment and is also pressure on him at a time he wants no pressure. I hope my earlier comments weren't too confusing on this.
That's been my goal all along - positive emotions.
Things over text and calls and filing and changing locks. Lots of negative emotions. Anger... Arguments. Its been exhausting and itsn't do a single thing to change his perception of me.
When he came and got the bike, at least for me seemed neutral to positive for the day. I cannot speak for him but the fact that he did the stuff with mower speaks at least it wasn't negative... or else he would have just left.
It was disappointing that he hounded with me texts over the affidavit once he got back to his town. But, it just speaks where he is at in all this... he is moving forward and wants desperately to cut all ties with me.
So letting him drive my car rather then me driving - positive impression for him. Keeping things light and having discussion - positive impression. No hovering - positive impression. Leaving him be in the garage - positive impression. ME - ASKING FOR A RIDE --- negative impression because it reinforces I'm not letting him go.
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I'm okay ALOT of moments... but then I suddenly have this stupid thought "he isn't taking any of the furniture... that's because she is moving in with him... they will have her furniture in his new house"
My ex was VERY quick to get a house. Rented first and then soon after bought one. I remember thinking she was doing it to set up house with OM (it's a pretty big house). It did get to me but eventually I just didn't care anymore. I knew who OM was and he was a nice guy, always friendly towards the kids (has none of his own) so as long as they were safe it just really didn't matter and honestly wasn't my business. Well guess what, here we are 8 years later, two kids grown and moved out, that OM now relegated to "distant friend" status and no new OM since. Mostly just XW alone in her huge house with S there every other week.
Thanks for some perspective on this. I know he just wants his own space... a place to garden as our home was too wooded to get enough sunlight. We had the community garden which he did a few years but working 12hrs and driving 2hr left little energy to drive 6min to go garden. He wants his 2hr back a day to find more enjoyment. I do understand that. I had agreed to move once S18 graduated high school. Looking at my actions H felt I wasn't going to leave the home. Frankly, if he just said "we moving or I can't continue" I would have moved. He commuted for 10yrs. I owed him. It was my turn to sacrifice... instead he just bailed.
In one of the phone calls last Sunday he was ranting about the financial protective order. I was trying to get him to come up with a solution together to deal with things as they are. He griped that he shouldn't have to find a solution to something I've done. I just said I can't go back in time and change something. If I could I would be changing a lot more than that.
Anyway, once he has the rest of his stuff on Sunday there will be no reason to contact. I will probably get that 90 day cool off period that I've been wanting. I'm still dealing with the emotion of panic/sadness when he doesn't contact and the emotion of panic/stress when he does contact. Still is so hard to think that I repulse him... but maybe is I keep saying it outloud I will accept it.
I appreciate every word - harsh or not. I have to get through this. I love him with all my heart but he does not define me.
Terrible headache this morning. Not the easiest night for sleep. Sometimes I really am okay. Others i just want to pick up the phone and beg him to reconsider everything. I know that would be stupid.
With all the texting from my MIL this week... I just want to ask her... is he moving OW into his new house??? Also stupid but there is where my mind has been in the last 24hr.
In the words of Dory from Nemo... Just keep swimming... Just keep swimming... Just keep swimming.
On Wednesday all I heard is "look how great my life is without this commute"... "look how great my life is now that I've got a big social circle and reconnecting with all my high school friends"... "my life is going great"... Yes, there was some eye contact and conversation but he was still cold... still distant.
Originally Posted by job
With all that is going on right now in your situation, I may be wrong, but I don't see this chapter of your life ending any time soon. The courts are pretty much shut down, paperwork may or may not get filed, but to me, this man is still very much tied to you. Look at how many times he contacts you about stuff. He's still relying on you to take care of him and his issues.
Hang in there.
I had already told my atty that I had wanted this process to be WAY slowed down. I filed for Legal S and we have a date of separation 3 weeks ago. Since then there has been no forward motion due to courts being shut down. I'm okay with that.
Is H relying on me??? I look back and while there has been a lot of contact from his end ITS all about him. He needs me to drop financial order. He needs to get his stuff. He needs affidavit. He needs to have access to a printer/scanner. Sure he is disrupting my life but its all about him and what he needs to get out of this life and move on to the next.
When I changed the locks and such I made it clear he needed to respect my space. There have been 2 comments about that since... "KC, I'm trying to respect your need to be left alone as much as I can" and more recently when I tried to end a phone a few days ago that was going badly where I stated I needed to go, I needed some space. H replied "you've had plenty of space, that's all I've done is give you space. Let me have my stuff and its all your space".
I don't believe H isn't contacting me outside his needs because I've asked for space/to be left alone? The longest he has gone without contacting me is 4 days.
Job you said he is still very much tied to me. Yes, he is. We still have a lot of joint things to settle. But, being tied to me doesn't mean he is not 100% done with me? I have not seen any indication that he thinks anything other than this plan of a new life and new house and new people.
Trying to hang in there and not give in to those strong gut feelings of doing the wrong moves.
H: What time will you be up tomorrow. Me: I will be home by 2pm
H: So waiting till 2
WTH? Earlier this week I offered Saturday at 5pm OR Sunday at 2pm to get his stuff. When he left on Wednesday he stated 'so Sunday then'... I said yes.
I've stayed firm on my availability. Is he just trying to get me to roll over and be a doormat? Standing firm and NOT giving into him to come earlier is having a backbone and despite him being angry over it he is more likely to respect me?
Is he just trying in a round about way for me to spill my plans WITHOUT having to ask WHY I won't be home until 2pm. Or is he just in H fantasy land of being selfish and the world revolves around him an his needs and thinking anything about mine???
I know I have a need to please him.... to get his approval... I need to stand firm...
