why is it so hard when someone is venting at you to come up with such magic on your own!
It takes practice. Validation is magic because it's not our natural response. It takes effort to silence our default response, pause, and consider a validating response. I mention the video, the thread, and the book because I turned to those repeatedly. I practiced on my teenager and co-workers.
It doesn't help that your ex--like many you want to validate--placed "barbs" in those statements maybe intended to get a reaction from you. E.g., he probably wanted you to worry you'd upset his parents.
why is it so hard when someone is venting at you to come up with such magic on your own!
It takes practice. Validation is magic because it's not our natural response. It takes effort to silence our default response, pause, and consider a validating response. I mention the video, the thread, and the book because I turned to those repeatedly. I practiced on my teenager and co-workers.
It doesn't help that your ex--like many you want to validate--placed "barbs" in those statements maybe intended to get a reaction from you. E.g., he probably wanted you to worry you'd upset his parents.
CW - What is your take on our day together???
The night before the texts and calls were angry on his end. But, in person things were casual. He would look at me when talking but not smiling. He did relax and one point and was discussing these videos... news stuff and had I seen them. Me? Not watching tv or the news right now but I listened and he said I could find them on FB.
I know I goofed by asking him to take me for a ride. His response was no response... not even looking at me and then when I wasn't sure if he heard me... he was silent again for 30 seconds before stating his excuse.
The night before when his texts and calls were getting angry... he even went so far to state I was being like his XW... I'm not able to let go... UGH... to be compared to her was painful.
I will give you my take on what I am getting from your recent posts...you gave your h everything he wanted:
1. You played taxi cab, you went to pick him up and bring him back to your residence...but you also allowed him to drive your car. 2. He used your computer/printer/scanner. He could have used those items anywhere, especially at a friend's house, be it male or female. 3. He most likely checked out the place to see what had changed or to get an idea of what he will return to pick up. 4. He got to see the dogs 5. He was able to not only get the motorcycle, but also the spare key. 6. Did he pick up his license? The most important item of all? What about his mail?
As long as you are giving him what he wants and not crying, whining about things, sure he's going to be relaxed. Who wouldn't be relaxed when they are getting what they want?
Glad to see that you realized that you made an error by asking him to give you a ride. You have to remember...he's not your friend. Friends don't disrespect each other, friends don't like and cheat on each other. He fired you as a wife. Are you listening to your lawyer at all? Did you get on line and speak to someone about the value of that motorcycle before it left the property? Being nice and rolling over and giving him what he wants will not bring him back...but it is going to aggravate your lawyer to the point that if you continue to do things your way, he may just throw up his/her hands and tell you to find someone else to represent you.
He is going to point out every time he doesn't get his way that you are just like his xw. They do this to manipulate and control us. They do this some that we will jump through hoops to prove them wrong and yes, even give them everything that they have asked for. Again, as long as you roll over and give him everything he asks for, he will be just as nice and relaxed as can be. However, the minute you say no, that is when he'll show his true colors again.
KC, you've been down this road before...wake up! This is a business deal gone sour. You have to look out for yourself because he sure the heck isn't. Trust me...the only person he cares about right now is himself. You need to understand that he is going to continue to ask and take whatever he wants and if you don't stay firm on the word "no" and set those boundaries, well...then you will be sorely taken to the cleaners.
I've been here for a very, very long time and I have seen several instances of this type of relationship and the LBS is the one that ends up losing just about everything...please, please listen to us. Stop trying to nice him back. That is why it is important that he give you a list of what he wants so that you have some idea before he comes. If you don't have that list, I bet when he comes over and says he wants this or that, you will give him the items w/o a discussion.
Put those big girl panties on and protect yourself at all costs. No one wins in a divorce, but you need to come out of this w/half of the marital assets/money...not just a little bit...but half.
I am not posting this stuff to upset you, but to help you realize that rolling over isn't the way to go. You have every right to say "no" and if he doesn't like that answer, he can go sit in a corner and stew about it or speak to his lawyer.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I am doing exactly what my atty tells me to do. I haven't taken a single step without notifying her first. The minute he wanted the affidavit I was in touch with atty. Gave her ALL the info and then did and wrote EXACTLY what she told me.
I thought I had set boundaries --- I was FIRM on day and time to get some of the larger items. He was NOT happy with my choice in day and time and did throw a tantrum but I did not cave.
As to the printer/scanner I was surprised he not NO other options outside coming all the way to the house. I told him I did not have ANY plans that included him coming into the house so I was not comfortable with him doing so BUT, I told him if it was his only option it was going to be X,Y and Z only.
I dictated:
I would pick him up (the letting him drive may not have been the best option but I'm supposed to do a 180's right? THAT was a 180 from typically I drive). He would LEAVE totes for me to pack up his clothes (he had baulked previously stating he didn't trust me) He could use the computer for X things He would only leave with his mail and motorcycle... I don't understand why he couldn't have the second key fob for the bike??? He literally took nothing else as per my instructions We would print out agreement for value on bike. (He got his license from me 2 weeks ago)
When he left he stated Sunday right? I said yes. He wanted Saturday but I said it did not work for me. I was firm and did not give. He did exactly as I directed on everything. He even on his own took the time to get the mower going - I had told him not to worry about it. I would handle it.
I thought I stood my ground. But, maybe I did not?
YES - my biggest mistake was asking for that ride. He didn't even look up or acknowledged I asked. BUT, I knew that was likely and I did act as if and let it roll off my back. I didn't whine or beg at all.
He did exactly what I told him. I was calm and cordial. Not overly nice... friendly like a neighbor. By doing what I asked he has shown I can trust him to some extent.
I get what you are saying. That night he was very much throwing a temper tantrum and NOT getting his way... so of course he would hurl things like I'm not letting him go just like his XW
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3. He most likely checked out the place to see what had changed or to get an idea of what he will return to pick up.
What did you mean he was checking out the place to see what had changed???
He is not taking a single piece of furniture outside his recliner - the only piece of furniture he brought with him when we married. He will take some outdoor equipment that he owned prior to our M and frankly I don't think they work or work well. His personal clothing. He won't be able to get it all in one visit.
He is returning on Sunday to get ^^^^^. Advice on what I can do different when he is getting more of his things?
Okay, now I see what you did. Thanks for explaining. You stood your ground. How did it feel to stand your ground? I hope it gave you the confidence you will need when packing up his stuff and being there when he returns Sunday. One question...did he say that he was going to put in a change of address so that he gets his mail elsewhere? That would save a lot of time and aggravation all of the way around for the both of you since he claims that your place is a distance from his work site.
I guess he needed the bike for transportation these days. I'm "assuming" the lawyer said it was okay for him to remove it from the property? Is your name on the title and insurance?
I do think that by remaining calm and not discussing the relationship today was a huge step in the right direction for you.
If you can remain calm and collected on Sunday, then there is nothing more you can do differently. Continue being friendly and if he speaks to you, talk to him. I wouldn't attempt to chat him up too much because he may be on edge waiting for you to talk about the relationship. Best to keep to topics such as work, the weather and the dogs.
Sometimes, they come in to see if you have done anything different, i.e., like rearranging the furniture, new curtains/blinds, paint and if you have removed family photos or favorite photos and replaced them with new ones. It's called curiosity. Sometimes, they just like to come in and take a look around to "stamp" that memory into their brain for when they leave they have something to remember about their past life. Sometimes they use the bathroom and while in there, check to see if anything new has appeared, such as a new toothbrush, toothpaste, razor, etc...which could be an indicator of someone else being in the home that is actually not a member of the family. It all depends upon the person and their personality as to why they do such things. I know my xh use to come to my home and just sit for hours while I was at work. He never left anything behind when he left. The only way that I knew he had been here was because the neighbor saw him enter and leave empty handed.
As for the spare fob for the motorcycle, I thought it was interesting that he remembered to get it since he had forgotten his license several weeks ago (which was a more important item to remember). My xh left his truck fob and it didn't dawn on him until I agreed to the one visit to the home to get the rest of his personal stuff. Now, keep in mind, he had been in the house dozens of time pre-visit and never took it. He acted like a complete nut when I suggested he give me the garage door opener in exchange for the key fob. The deputy who had arrived w/him thought that was a great exchange. Had it not been for the deputy, I imagine he wouldn't have given me the opener...but I had already planned to change out the code if I didn't get it back. In the end, he left w/just a few things since he had already gotten all of his personal items previously and that one infamous key fob. He was never allowed back here after that visit.
Now, you understand a bit more as to why I made the comments about coming in the house and looking around and the key fob.
Again, I do think that if you can remain calm and not get upset and take his bait to argue, things should go fairly well on Sunday. If he texts you between now and then, only respond if you think it is necessary and take some time to think about your responses before you post to him. If it helps, come here to get some "pearls of wisdom" on responses.
BTW, I apologize if I was too blunt w/you. I do not want to see him take advantage of you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Okay, now I see what you did. Thanks for explaining. You stood your ground. How did it feel to stand your ground? I hope it gave you the confidence you will need when packing up his stuff and being there when he returns Sunday.
I'm a little concerned it was a false victory? He needed something VERY BADLY from me. He had no way of getting this mortgage to closing without this affidavit. He was forced into cooperation.
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One question...did he say that he was going to put in a change of address so that he gets his mail elsewhere? That would save a lot of time and aggravation all of the way around for the both of you since he claims that your place is a distance from his work site.
I suspect once he has closed on the mortgage and move into his house he will put in for a change of address. He doesn't get much mail here anyway - junk mail. He made it a point now to ask for his mail twice... AND , he let it slip he is expecting something important. So far, that hasn't shown up.
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I guess he needed the bike for transportation these days. I'm "assuming" the lawyer said it was okay for him to remove it from the property? Is your name on the title and insurance?
Yes - atty knows. The bike is titled and financed in his name only. Insurance is paid through July and once he has a new address policy can be broken up.
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I do think that by remaining calm and not discussing the relationship today was a huge step in the right direction for you.
Thank you. There have been huge misteps with text (let's face it, it's easy to misinterpret a text) and calls. So much negative emotions. I do have to pat myself on the back. The only dumb move all day was asking for a ride on the bike.
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If you can remain calm and collected on Sunday, then there is nothing more you can do differently. Continue being friendly and if he speaks to you, talk to him. I wouldn't attempt to chat him up too much because he may be on edge waiting for you to talk about the relationship. Best to keep to topics such as work, the weather and the dogs.
Yes, hopefully we can continue to chat like we did yesterday. Though we covered lots of stuff I'm a little worried that we will run out of safe things to say? I'm hoping by working together to get things out of the attic and into the truck we might have a little fun and laugh a bit?
My biggest question for Sunday ---- Should I wear my ring??? I haven't taken it off and I'm certain he saw it yesterday still on my finger. Should he notice its not there??? I mean he was complaining and lashing out that I was not "letting him go". Would not seeing my ring on move his thoughts in a different direction.
I was also trying to NOT let him in the house proper but I imagine he will need to use the bathroom at some point during the process.
I thought I'd have some chicken and noodles going in the crockpot? Its an easy low stress thing to make and while it cooks for several hours it will fill the house with a scent that will make you hungry... so in case he does end up in the house... it smells good. Is this something I should do?
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Sometimes, they come in to see if you have done anything different, i.e., like rearranging the furniture, new curtains/blinds, paint and if you have removed family photos or favorite photos and replaced them with new ones. It's called curiosity.
Nothing has changed yet... frankly too busy with work and dogs and moving H out. what down time I do have I'm working out, knitting and exploring self help/improvement/reading for improvement. I haven't taken down a single picture. Don't know if this is good or bad.
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As for the spare fob for the motorcycle, I thought it was interesting that he remembered to get it since he had forgotten his license several weeks ago (which was a more important item to remember).
The bike is really important to him. Which is why is was hilarious when he just said keep it and you make the payments and I'll just go buy a new one. I should have NOT said this but I did share with him on the phone earlier this week that "you should know I had plans for you, me and that bike this summer... its hard to see it go"... that's when he said "you keep it.. you learn how to ride... well... that bikes really big for a beginner... you should get something a little smaller..."
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Again, I do think that if you can remain calm and not get upset and take his bait to argue, things should go fairly well on Sunday. If he texts you between now and then, only respond if you think it is necessary and take some time to think about your responses before you post to him. If it helps, come here to get some "pearls of wisdom" on responses.
Well he texted like 5 times last night --- all about the affidavit. I responded to 3 of the texts and just ignored the last 2. He was getting VERY pushy and frankly nothing is going to change between 5pm and 10pm at night.
He waited to text today at noon --- "anything?". I had 3 more email exchanges with atty before noon and finally go the okay and what to write in the affidavit. He requested I email.
I texted him a simple "email done". It would have been nice if he said - thank you, got it, ok... any one of those but you know what? After hounding me for 24hr... I got nothing. Selfish H got what he desperately needed so I can go crawl in a hole and be forgotten now. Don't worry I'm not valuing my self due to his lack of social protocol. Its just a big neon sign telling me how dope I am for thinking this man might have the slightest doubt/waffle about his choice to end our M.
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BTW, I apologize if I was too blunt w/you. I do not want to see him take advantage of you.
I've made a lot of mistakes... many that I am way smarter and know not to make. I'm dealing with my need to please him... to be nice to him... to be accepted by him.
Frankly I miss him and still love him - so I'm dealing with that too.
No apologies needed. I seriously appreciate the help/support even though my actions may not always show it.
The question about wearing your ring...that is a very personal issue for each person and I tend to think that if you feel comfortable wearing it then by all means. After all, you are still married and no paperwork has been filed, stamped and dated yet. What are your thoughts on wearing it? Do you feel comfortable doing so or do you have another ring you can put on that finger to replace the bands?
As for the chicken and noodles sounds delicious and the aroma will fill the house. Look your best, put that perfume on and be friendly...but not overly friendly or chatty.
I know you miss and love him...but for now, you have to be strong and look at this as a business deal. It's going to take a long time for him to realize what he is missing and could very well lose.
KC, we all have made mistakes and it is what we learn from those mistakes that helps guide us along this path. If something is working, then continue it. If something isn't working, stop doing it. Here's something that I always say, think of this as a dance and your h is your partner...allow him to lead and you follow when it comes to interactions w/him. There may be times when he actually mirrors your behavior..don't get discouraged. Stay the course. The more you don't react to his comments and behavior, the better. When he realizes that you are moving forward and not sitting around waiting for his texts or calls, the sooner he'll get the message that life is moving forward for you.
With all that is going on right now in your situation, I may be wrong, but I don't see this chapter of your life ending any time soon. The courts are pretty much shut down, paperwork may or may not get filed, but to me, this man is still very much tied to you. Look at how many times he contacts you about stuff. He's still relying on you to take care of him and his issues.
Hang in there.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I'm a little concerned it was a false victory? He needed something VERY BADLY from me. He had no way of getting this mortgage to closing without this affidavit. He was forced into cooperation.
Try not to see anything as a victory or defeat. You're separating and dividing assets, no one wins and everyone loses something. One thing that is very hard for many people to accept in separation and divorce is that no one is legally "made whole".
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The only dumb move all day was asking for a ride on the bike.
That's pretty blatant pursuit. Just keep in mind that whenever you say/ do something like that you go right back to the beginning line of your marathon. It wipes out all the progress you've been working on. Why? Because you are basically telling him "I am still Plan B, ready and waiting for a sign from you." We all do stuff like that early on, but after you touch the stove a few times and burn the crud out of yourself you develop a distaste for it.
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Yes, hopefully we can continue to chat like we did yesterday. Though we covered lots of stuff I'm a little worried that we will run out of safe things to say?
Then don't say anything. I get the sense that despite everything we've told you, you're still clinging to the hope that you can win him back through nice conversations. You can't. Nothing is going to bring him back anytime soon, please accept that. Months or years from now maybe. But not right now.
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I'm hoping by working together to get things out of the attic and into the truck we might have a little fun and laugh a bit?
He is absolutely not going to think "oh wow she's so nice and so much fun to be around, forget all this, we need to get back together!" STICK TO BUSINESS. Quit trying to "nice" him back. We keep telling you this, you keep saying you're not, then you post things that clearly indicate that is exactly what you're trying to do.
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My biggest question for Sunday ---- Should I wear my ring??? I haven't taken it off and I'm certain he saw it yesterday still on my finger. Should he notice its not there??? I mean he was complaining and lashing out that I was not "letting him go". Would not seeing my ring on move his thoughts in a different direction.
Quit trying to use tricks to "snap him out of it". Again, it won't work! Wear it or don't wear it because it's your personal choice, not because you're trying to elicit a response.
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I thought I'd have some chicken and noodles going in the crockpot? Its an easy low stress thing to make and while it cooks for several hours it will fill the house with a scent that will make you hungry... so in case he does end up in the house... it smells good. Is this something I should do?
Tricks.
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I should have NOT said this but I did share with him on the phone earlier this week that "you should know I had plans for you, me and that bike this summer... its hard to see it go"
Tricks.
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I texted him a simple "email done". It would have been nice if he said - thank you, got it, ok... any one of those but you know what? After hounding me for 24hr... I got nothing. Selfish H got what he desperately needed so I can go crawl in a hole and be forgotten now.
That is exactly his attitude right now, which is why we keep telling you to stop trying to "nice" him back. You just look like a doormat when you do.
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I'm dealing with my need to please him... to be nice to him... to be accepted by him.
Frankly I miss him and still love him - so I'm dealing with that too.
DB'ing is hard because it's counter-intuitive. Your heart and mind are telling you to do things that are actually harmful to your situation. You've got to quit listening to your inner voice and really try to embrace DB'ing. I know it's hard. I've been there, Job has, we all have. We get it! But it's your best chance.
The only dumb move all day was asking for a ride on the bike.
That's pretty blatant pursuit. Just keep in mind that whenever you say/ do something like that you go right back to the beginning line of your marathon. It wipes out all the progress you've been working on. Why? Because you are basically telling him "I am still Plan B, ready and waiting for a sign from you." We all do stuff like that early on, but after you touch the stove a few times and burn the crud out of yourself you develop a distaste for it.
Back to square one??? OUCH... Double OUCH. I didn't let it phase me. I was good either way, but hopeful I guess. But, he didn't even look up or acknowledged that I asked anything. He didn't say NO... he just ignored me. I suppose that's worse? Internally he was probably rolling his eyes. Yes - it was a dumb desperate move.
He is 100% checked out and just wants his stuff.
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Yes, hopefully we can continue to chat like we did yesterday. Though we covered lots of stuff I'm a little worried that we will run out of safe things to say?
Then don't say anything. I get the sense that despite everything we've told you, you're still clinging to the hope that you can win him back through nice conversations. You can't. Nothing is going to bring him back anytime soon, please accept that. Months or years from now maybe. But not right now.
Okay - not my job to carry convo. My silence speaks more??? I was afraid it made me look bitter?
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He is absolutely not going to think "oh wow she's so nice and so much fun to be around, forget all this, we need to get back together!" STICK TO BUSINESS. Quit trying to "nice" him back. We keep telling you this, you keep saying you're not, then you post things that clearly indicate that is exactly what you're trying to do.
UGH... its hard because when I'm "tough" he gets vindictive... and "tough" doesn't come easy to me. I am a nice person.
[quote]My biggest question for Sunday ---- Should I wear my ring??? I haven't taken it off and I'm certain he saw it yesterday still on my finger. Should he notice its not there??? I mean he was complaining and lashing out that I was not "letting him go". Would not seeing my ring on move his thoughts in a different direction.
Quit trying to use tricks to "snap him out of it". Again, it won't work! Wear it or don't wear it because it's your personal choice, not because you're trying to elicit a response.
My concern is that maybe he has more contempt and anger because "I'm not letting him go" as he stated on the phone the other day. Wearing my ring is showing I have hope the M can be saved and he is adament it cannot be saved.... it's done. If he saw my ring off... he might wonder where I'm at? he might be curious.
Isn't that the same as dressing nicely, make up and perfume... you are trying to evoke a response. That's not a trick correct?
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I should have NOT said this but I did share with him on the phone earlier this week that "you should know I had plans for you, me and that bike this summer... its hard to see it go"
Tricks.
Well that was down right honesty... I had plans. I failed to share them with H before BD... I was waiting for nicer weather and say 'hey, let's go here'.
But, I know it comes off a too little too late in his eyes.. manipulation to keep him with me. But I think calling it a trick was harsh?
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I texted him a simple "email done". It would have been nice if he said - thank you, got it, ok... any one of those but you know what? After hounding me for 24hr... I got nothing. Selfish H got what he desperately needed so I can go crawl in a hole and be forgotten now.
That is exactly his attitude right now, which is why we keep telling you to stop trying to "nice" him back. You just look like a doormat when you do.
Yes... I'm trying my best to not be a doormat. I don't answer every single text. I don't respond to those that don't require a response. I am NEVER the one to initiate the texts or calls.
Sure, it doesn't keep me from hoping he feels my absence.
Will continue to work on my NICENESS issues.
UGH... its hard enough to focus on months... let alone years. You feel he may take years? I am giving him 1 year. Once D is final there will be no going back for me. I have managed what I felt were real deal breakers for me... working through a PA is difficult enough and if he really did the work to return to me I'm open. Once our D is final... the door is closed.
