I'm lost now. Am I meant to be standing up to her disrespect, or ignoring it and dropping the rope?
Depends. If the disrespect is by text. Ignore it. If she is being disrespectful to your face, then stand up for yourself. "I will not stand here and allow you to speak to me that way." Then walkaway.
You ask this question as if dropping the rope is equal to ignoring it. It is not. You can stand up to her disrespect when you need to and still drop the rope.
As far as training her, because that is exactly what it is, it is kind of like training a dog. Positive reinforcement works better than punishment. What does that mean? That means that if she tries to engage you in a disrespectful way, do not engage her. It is kind of like a yellow lab I had years ago. When he wanted my attention, he'd jump up on me. The way I broke that was that when he jumped on me, my attention went away. Eventually he learned that if he wanted my attention,. jumping up on me was not the way it was done. Your WAS needs to learn the same thing, when she treats you disrespectfully, she doesn't get what she wants. But when she approaches you respectfully, then you engage her in a positive friendly way.
Now be aware, it may take a LONG time for her to get that message. This is not something you point out to her verbally because she may dig her heels in. It is something that consistency and repetition will enforce and reinforce over time.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Quote I meant that next time she disrespects me by acting like I'm not around, I will call out the behaviour. I will say it is unnecessary and inappropriate, and that she needs to acknowledge my presence in a timely manner. No additional conversation required, just the common courtesy of a simple hello.
Okay, and if she chooses not to acknowledge your presence? What then?
I'm lost now. Am I meant to be standing up to her disrespect, or ignoring it and dropping the rope?
Are you lost b/c of my question about what would you do if she chooses to not to acknowledge your presence after you call her out?
Let me ask you this........do you know when your W is disrespecting you? I mean, can you recognize her actions that are disrespectful to you (verbal, attitude, conduct, putting you down, mocking you, criticizing you in front of others, etc.)? Now, you seemed very upset that she won't speak upon seeing you. You said it was rude, and you were going to call her hand on it the next time she would not speak. That is fine. I only asked what you would do if that did not work. Why does that throw you into feeling lost/confused? I simply wanted you to realize that calling her out about her rudeness may not change anything, b/c she has a choice. Make sense? Therefore, you need to have some idea of how you would handle it, should she continue being rude. How would you protect your feelings? Well, maybe you won't invite her inside your house whenever exchanging child time, or if you go to her place for exchange, then stay inside your vehicle instead of standing around watching her.
Expecting her to speak to acknowledge your presence, is a bit of a two-edged sword, b/c if you choose to ignore her texts, then she'll accuse you of doing the same type of rudeness. As MWD says, pick your battles wisely. IMHO, the things you could ignore is when she sends a text that doesn't require a response. If she sends a photo of the kids, or forwards a joke, or to just make some idle statement, feeling sorry for herself, talking about how hard she has it, etc. These are actual ways a WW keeps her LBH emotionally attached. You know, she has to keep her Plan B in place.
Dropping the rope means you let go of her physically and emotionally. You and your W have been in an emotional tug of war, and you need to stop pulling the rope on your end. It doesn't mean you roll over and act a like doormat. It doesn't mean you file for D, if you don't want a D. You step away from her, and give her all the space in the world. You live your life and let her live her life, and as long as she treats you in a civil, respectful manner, then don't flare up and over react to every little thing. Don't apply emotional pressure trying to get her back. Don't find various excuses to keep contact going. Don't make yourself available to her. If physically separated, then don't become her personal repairman, plumber, carpenter, tech guy, counselor, BFF, etc. Don't try to rescue her whenever she is faced with a problem. Don't support her financially, if she is physically able to work. (I'm not talking about child support.) I could on & on, but if you've read my threads, then I think you understand what I'm saying here. If not, then say so and I'll try to clarify.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I'll reply soon, Sandi. This corona virus situation has turned everything upside down. It's the busiest time for my work and we're all working from home now. We had one day's notice, went in at the start of last week and were told 'you have to do it all from home tomorrow'. The work days are long at the moment and I'm only getting to briefly look in here, when I have no brain power left and should be going to bed.
My wife is still going in to work at the moment, it's only meant to be two days a week but she's going in again tomorrow. The kids have stayed with me instead of swinging over to her for her turn this week.
Well, it's been a rough couple of weeks with both my work and the W's all in disarray because of covid 19. I've been working from home for a couple of weeks. W started working from the house she lives in last week, but has mainly been going into the city for work. W says there aren't many people on the train, and not many people in the office, but the kids have stayed with me (for the most part) given W's contact with the wider world.
This means I've had the kids for about three weeks straight, which is good because I can spend time with them but hard because it's only since W left that I've really had to cook. I'm not too bad, but the kids aren't keen on a lot of things I can make well, or they have other issues. (S15 has mild autism and doesn't like the texture of pasta, whereas the rest of us love spaghetti etc.) S15 is also growing like crazy and taller than the rest of us now. His body needs fuel and he can demolish a loaf of bread by himself in about a day or a day and a half. Running to the shops is no longer a quick task, with social distancing and restrictions on the number of shoppers in the supermarket meaning lining up to get in and out. Cleaning the house is certainly easier when the kids are out of the way too.
Anyway, about a week before Easter I had to see W and ... I don't remember how this happened, but we ended up kissing, which lead to more kissing, and a bit of talking, and W saying "I knew this was going to happen", and we eventually ended up in bed. This happened for the next three days.
We've had several 'respites' or 'interludes' like this since W moved out. They don't last long, but every time I am sure I see love for me peeking out of W. There is that look in her eyes like the way she used to look at me. It is more than just me going misty-eyed because of the physical side of things. W softens towards me. She talks to me, tells me about work and her day and what is going on in her life. She always says something about the past, that shows the hurt she feels. She initiates hugs and hand-holding. She thanks me for things I do, and takes my side when the kids play up too much. She invited us all around to dinner (twice) and both times sat next to me. Usually she makes sure I am positioned away from her. She texted me a good night the first night it happened, and used my name.
W said to me "You should've let me heal when we had our babies." I replied, "Yes, yes I should have", as the most validating thing I could think to say. Really my mind was racing and I wanted to say "I didn't know you were hurting back then. I thought everything was fine and dandy", and also "What can I do now to help you heal?" I didn't say any of that to her, just "Yes, yes I should've." I also said that the workload looking after the house and kids singlehandedly showed me how much she had to do when I was at work all the time.
W reckoned it was her 'raging hormones' influencing her and that I should 'take advantage of them' while I could. "They will do a complete 180 soon and then I will be back to being a no-go zone."
I find this hard to swallow, as it seems to me to be the real her coming out when when she is warm and loving like this. But W says the real her is the cold one that wants nothing to do with me. I don't know what hormones she means either, whether her normal cycle or something else.
The hormones must've changed because earlier in the week she talked about us spending a day together for Easter. This ended up being an invitation to lunch on Sunday. She didn't greet me when we arrived. I leant forward to give her a kiss and she said "Let's not go there." I think she also said we had to talk about it, but the kids were already asking different questions from other parts of the house ("Muuuummm! Where's (whatever)?") She didn't bring it up again.
(So much goes on at these points in time, I wish I could record it and listen back to what my brain failed to take in. I'd never really do it though.)
The day was a half-and-half. I wasn't allowed to help make dinner, or stand in the kitchen area, or wash up afterwards, but W told me about her work and how busy she was. She still sat next to me for dinner. I was allowed to say grace, and we held fingers for that. After the dishes were done W and I sat on the couch together half watching the movie on TV ("Three Wishes", Patrick Swayze). My right arm was pressed against her left leg the whole time, and she didn't say anything or move away. W got me a cup of tea without asking, and even brought it to me.
After the movie finished we watched another show. I asked W if she wanted to do something together, like play cards. She said "Sure, if the kids want to." D13 said no. I was hoping S15 would also say no, as I'd just meant do something as the two of us, but D15 was happy to play (both of them dislike the house and find it boring as most of their things are at home). When we left I didn't get a goodbye, but 'Thanks', as if I was the plumber who'd just been to fix a leak or something. Discouraging.
All these recent events reinforce my view that W is a WAW not a WW.
I also need to detach, GAL, and get back to exercising.
Anyway, about a week before Easter I had to see W and ... I don't remember how this happened, but we ended up kissing, which lead to more kissing, and a bit of talking, and W saying "I knew this was going to happen", and we eventually ended up in bed. This happened for the next three days.
We've had several 'respites' or 'interludes' like this since W moved out. They don't last long, but every time I am sure I see love for me peeking out of W. There is that look in her eyes like the way she used to look at me. It is more than just me going misty-eyed because of the physical side of things. W softens towards me. She talks to me, tells me about work and her day and what is going on in her life. She always says something about the past, that shows the hurt she feels. She initiates hugs and hand-holding.
Try not to read anything into it, she is just missing the intimacy. It sounds like she has a pattern of pulling you in and then pushing you away again, so just be ready for that to happen and don't get upset when it does. I mean it is a good sign, that she's still open to intimate moments with you. Just don't attach a bunch of expectations to it and pressure her for a relationship. She'll let you know if/ when she's ready for that.
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She thanks me for things I do, and takes my side when the kids play up too much. She invited us all around to dinner (twice) and both times sat next to me. Usually she makes sure I am positioned away from her. She texted me a good night the first night it happened, and used my name.
Those are all great signs! The last thing you want to do is pressure or pursue her though. Just keep up with your DB'ing. Do you know the feeding-the-squirrel analogy?
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W said to me "You should've let me heal when we had our babies." I replied, "Yes, yes I should have", as the most validating thing I could think to say. Really my mind was racing and I wanted to say "I didn't know you were hurting back then. I thought everything was fine and dandy", and also "What can I do now to help you heal?" I didn't say any of that to her, just "Yes, yes I should've."
GOOD! classic case of less is more.
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W reckoned it was her 'raging hormones' influencing her and that I should 'take advantage of them' while I could. "They will do a complete 180 soon and then I will be back to being a no-go zone."
Good advice!
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I find this hard to swallow, as it seems to me to be the real her coming out when when she is warm and loving like this. But W says the real her is the cold one that wants nothing to do with me. I don't know what hormones she means either, whether her normal cycle or something else.
They are both the real her. Just accept that and understand that you don't only get one or the other!
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She didn't greet me when we arrived. I leant forward to give her a kiss and she said "Let's not go there."
Let HER do the pursuing. You play it cool. ALWAYS.
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All these recent events reinforce my view that W is a WAW not a WW.
All these recent events reinforce my view that W is a WAW not a WW.
It's fine if you don't want to agree with me. I'm concerned, and I think you choose to define waywardness as being only those who are having an affair. Google the word, wayward, and read the definition. I'm not going to argue about it. You aren't the first H who doesn't want to accept that his W has a wayward heart/mindset, and you won't be the last. Continue to study the DR book (all of it).
You did not read the parts of DR that you thought didn't apply to you. You threw out the rules you didn't think applied. You thought since your W didn't check every single box under the description of WW's, it eliminated her. And, you are still skipping around and throwing out the parts you don't like. Maybe it's time to stop cherry picking and read everything through to completion.
I hope you will recognize when you are being disrespected by your W. It really concerned me when you asked how to know if she was being disrespectful. If you had read through some of the reading material, you would have read about that very subject. I hope you'll learn to always stand up to disrespect. Ignoring disrespect is not dropping the rope! Like many newcomers, you are confused by some of the DB terms. It's okay, you'll learn.
I hope she gets treatment for her hormones, and for whatever else troubles her.
You do a good job taking care of your children by yourself. Be sure to take care of yourself, too.
((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Those are all great signs! The last thing you want to do is pressure or pursue her though. Just keep up with your DB'ing. Do you know the feeding-the-squirrel analogy?
No, I don't think I've come across the feeding-the-squirrel analogy. Please fill me in!
