I've been lurking for a while and I'm finally posting.
I'll try to be as specific as possible while maintaining anonymous.
Wife and I are both early 30s with a 1+ year old son. Have had ups and downs in our relationship, but always stuck together...until last December.
A little background, I have struggled with porn throughout our marriage. It hasn't been constant, but it has come and gone often. My wife finds this very hurtful and her self-esteem has been negatively impacted by it. Leading up to and after the birth of our son, I started having drinks more nights of the week and, at times, having more than I should. I rationalized my behavior bc I never drove drunk or had any arrests. She expressed concerns and I cut back some but also hid drinking from her. The discovery of those 2 have really hurt her.
While this was happening, I was being stonewalled by her. No talking. No time together. Example: I remember many times at hour house, saying something to her just to make conversation and she didn't even look up, much less respond. Our fights became worse and worse. I found myself lost and confused about why we were even fighting. So many times, I would be so excited to see her after she got off work (I'm a student/worker with odd hours) and she would come in, look at me like I was a criminal, talk to me like I was garbage, and start a fight about nothing. Then stonewall.
I kept asking to go to therapy, and she stated multiple times she wanted to and wouldn't give up on our marriage and family without trying it again (we have been in the past). She found porn on my phone again and demanded I move out. I convinced her to try an in-home separation. It didn't really help. Finally in December, she came into my bedroom after I had fallen asleep and found porn on my phone. That was it. She demanded I move out and stated her and my son would go somewhere if I didn't. In my guilt and hopefulness that we could work things out, I agreed. I look back on that choice as a pivotal mistake I wish I could take back on top of all my other mistakes and harmful behaviors.
We finally got into therapy once the separation started. In the 1st session, she stated she didn't see the point of this because she just wants a divorce. That was within the 1st month of physical separation. We went 2 more times, with repeated results before she refused to stop going. She says she is done with this marriage and unwilling to work things out. Gets very angry at the suggestion that we try anything.
Currently, we divide our time with our son as equally as possible. I have been staying on a couch, but I'm about to have my own place so I can keep him 2-4 nights per week. Due to a pretty scary incident at our previous home, we moved out of the house in February. The situation was legitimate, however unfortunate. We were renting, and the situation was severe enough that our landlords let us out of the lease immediately. She's currently living in an apartment in town. No pictures of me or the 3 of us up anywhere. Nothing that would signify she was ever even married. She stopped wearing her rings at least 2 months ago.
She is not fully truthful with friends and relatives about the situation, i.e. She wants a divorce and I don't. Her 2 biggest confidantes right now are a new female friend she has known less than a year and her narcissistic mother. Ironically, we have talked about and processed all the abuse her mother has shown her for the entirety of our relationship. Now, she turns to mom who has emotionally and psychologically abused her from day one. She is caught up in ideas of a new life and being "happily unmarried." She says she doesn't think she is right for marriage and she thinks I'm better at it. That she hopes I'll find a new wife and have more kids. And of course, ILYBINILWY.
As stated before, she hasn't told a lot of people about the situation. And she has told almost no one that she is actively pursuing divorce and wants to start proceedings in April. She still makes comments about "if we can work things out" while later saying "this is done and you need to accept it."
I'm confident there is some form of EA going on. Years ago, I discovered she had developed feelings for OM and seemed to be pursuing him. It was unclear if the feelings were reciprocated or just a fantasy. Her current state of mind and behaviors point to this kind of fantasy happening again. Lots of indirect evidence of EA: hidden social media (only 2 followers are mom and friend lol) with posts about moving on, being authentic to yourself, unrequited love, etc. I've also discovered she has deleted emails from a friend of ours. The ones I have found contain nothing damning save for they are 2 married people talking to each other more than their spouses. Whatever the status of the EA or PA, it's clear there is a lot of fantasy involved.
I did all the wrong things the 1st month or 2 and finally discovered this board and have been building DB skills since. I've stopped reaching out to her and stopped requesting time together. I am calm and happy around her, but not needy. Between work and school, I have plenty of opportunities to GAL. And I'm enjoying as much time with our son as possible. Will be in a stable apartment by the end of next week so I can give her that freedom she craves. I am hoping that will help further detach and giver her space to breathe as she is still somehow "suffocating" even though we live separately and don't spend time together.
Trying to believe nothing she says and only half what she does. One moment of clarity she had came after she met me at a restaurant with our son so I could take him to dinner. I told her it was probably best if she didn't join us. When I took him back for bedtime, she talked about not liking the feeling of driving away from us and actually hugged and kissed me. I believe my wife is deep underneath this current version, and I wish I could help her get out. She has had abandonment issues since we met, so DBing feels especially difficult to mange. Hard to feel okay with detaching when I'm worried it could confirm fears I was going to leave her all along.
Anyways, thanks to everyone that posts here. It has been immensely helpful as I fight to preserve my family.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Your H or W is giving you a GIFT. THE GIFT OF TIME. USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-66, D33,S32
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Sorry to see another couple facing a possible divorce. I encourage you to seriously read Divorce Remedy, plus the links listed on the previous post.
Every MR is tried and tested with problems, but it's those things we could have prevented that hurt the worst.
Don't run for your life when you see all these questions. I do this to get a clearer picture. You don't have to answer every one, but maybe you'll expound a bit more.
I don't want to appear as if I am whacking you over the head, but I have to ask. Why didn't you just stop the porn? Not that simple, is it? Were you interacting with a live person on line, or just watching a video? I think it is significant b/c you started your post admitting to the porn and drinking.
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A little background, I have struggled with porn throughout our marriage. It hasn't been constant, but it has come and gone often. My wife finds this very hurtful and her self-esteem has been negatively impacted by it.
Just to get your honest opinion, do you think there is a doubled standard when it comes to porn? I mean, do you see it mostly accepted by all men, and not so much with women? Can you understand how the porn messed with her head? My next question is how was your sex life in the bedroom?
Like I said, I'm not here to beat you up. If you don't understand how this affected your W........ then the behavior pattern will continue.......even if it's in another MR.
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Leading up to and after the birth of our son, I started having drinks more nights of the week and, at times, having more than I should
So, was the sex satisfying until she got pregnant? I'm trying to see why you felt the need to drink more than you should.....and how that ties into her pregnancy and having a new baby. It's not that unusual for young fathers to feel like their needs have been pushed way down on the W's priority list.
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While this was happening, I was being stonewalled by her. No talking. No time together. Example: I remember many times at hour house, saying something to her just to make conversation and she didn't even look up, much less respond. Our fights became worse and worse. I found myself lost and confused about why we were even fighting.
While you continued with the porn and drinking she stonewalled you, and you were confused about why?
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So many times, I would be so excited to see her after she got off work (I'm a student/worker with odd hours) and she would come in, look at me like I was a criminal, talk to me like I was garbage, and start a fight about nothing. Then stonewall.
If I didn't know that you continued doing what hurt her, then I would suspect that maybe she was stressed out being a working mom with a baby. Now, I'm just shooting in the dark here, but if you were going out drinking more, and spending time watching porn........how much help at home did she get?
How would you respond when she talked to you like garbage? Did that make you want to go drink more?
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I kept asking to go to therapy, and she stated multiple times she wanted to and wouldn't give up on our marriage and family without trying it again (we have been in the past). She found porn on my phone again and demanded I move out. I convinced her to try an in-home separation. It didn't really help. Finally in December, she came into my bedroom after I had fallen asleep and found porn on my phone. That was it. She demanded I move out and stated her and my son would go somewhere if I didn't. In my guilt and hopefulness that we could work things out, I agreed. I look back on that choice as a pivotal mistake I wish I could take back on top of all my other mistakes and harmful behaviors.
Kind of a vicious cycle?
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I'm confident there is some form of EA going on. Years ago, I discovered she had developed feelings for OM and seemed to be pursuing him. It was unclear if the feelings were reciprocated or just a fantasy. Her current state of mind and behaviors point to this kind of fantasy happening again. Lots of indirect evidence of EA: hidden social media (only 2 followers are mom and friend lol) with posts about moving on, being authentic to yourself, unrequited love, etc. I've also discovered she has deleted emails from a friend of ours. The ones I have found contain nothing damning save for they are 2 married people talking to each other more than their spouses. Whatever the status of the EA or PA, it's clear there is a lot of fantasy involved.
Did you ever approach her about any of this?
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I believe my wife is deep underneath this current version, and I wish I could help her get out. She has had abandonment issues since we met, so DBing feels especially difficult to mange. Hard to feel okay with detaching when I'm worried it could confirm fears I was going to leave her all along.
DB detachment seems to be the hardest to understand, and even harder trying to explain it to a newcomer. She is the one leading with divorce talk. She knows the truth. I'm not so sure everything is as one-sided as it might have appeared in the beginning. But then, it never is.
I will wait to hear your response, before I say anymore.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I watch too much myself and believe it really messes your view and approach to sex and intimacy. Sure a historical contributor in my sitch, event though W knows and has never really mentioned it. We even watched porn together, but that something totally different.
Me: 34 Stbxw: 30 D:5 D:3 Mini bd: May/June 2019 Married: Aug 2019 BD: 6th Dec 2019 OM Confirmed: Feb 2020 March 2020: I filed for D Waiting for D to be finalized and W to move out end of January 2021
Sandi, thanks for taking the time to read my story. The questions don't bother me at all. I'm trying to see my situation clearly and will take all thoughts and advice.
Let me answer your questions in order. (Also, if anyone can explain how to quote just segments I would appreciate it.)
1. I tried quitting and just kept relapsing. It wasn't constant. But it was too often. I feel horrible about it.
2. Just videos and pictures, no interaction.
3. I think a lot of people have a double standard about it. I don't think it's okay. I don't want my son to do it. Still, I am realistic about the amount that is consumed. My male counselor says "9 out of 10 men I work with struggle with it and the rest of them are liars." Yes, I understand how it hurts her. I can see it as very similar to emotional affairs. Both involve fantasy and betrayal of the one you love.
4. Our sex life was always really good before baby. We had sex often, communicated our needs well, and seemed to be mutually satisfied. It was never a problem in our relationship. The porn, of course, made it a problem. The drinking became a problem after we relocated across the country for a 1 year internship for her degree. We were in a small town with little opportunities and never really made any friends (individual or as a couple) while we were there. I went from a great job with great benefits and good pay that I loved to having a hard time finding work. Also at this time, I was trying to get into grad school and had some rejections. After she got pregnant, she started going to bed very early (7:30 some nights). I let loneliness and resentment (of the outside world, not her) rationalize my drinking. I did a lot of our cooking, cleaning, and other household things after she went to bed so we could have time together before. I was happy to do those things, but I would just have beer after beer while I did them. After baby came, my wife and I barely saw each other. Even when we had a rare opportunity to spend time together, she would avoid it. I let that fuel my drinking, I am very sorry to say. I felt entitled. Between the (joyous) stress of new parenthood, grad school, moving twice in 2 years, and losing touch with my one constant (my wife), I sought out very bad coping mechanisms.
5. I'm not confused about the stonewalling as a whole. There were long periods of time where the drinking and porn were less of an issue. I worked on my issues (therapy, accountability software monitored by a good friend, etc.). The sex and time spent together continued to be completely absent. Even when we had family over to stay with our little one after bed, she would find an excuse to not go get dinner or start a fight at the last minute. She lashed out at me for things that made no sense: leaving a towel on the bathroom floor by mistake, leaving the screen door locked when I was upstairs resulting in her waiting about 30 seconds to get inside, etc. Things that might be worth mentioning or talking about but she went straight to screaming and even became physically aggressive.
6. I didn't really go out drinking. I just had drinks at home after the little one went down. I think even now she would say I did a lot of work around the house before and especially after he was born. And I have loved being a father and cared for him any time I was home so she could have a break. Breastfeeding was difficult and took a toll on her self-esteem. She valued it very highly and felt like a failure when she worked so hard and got such little results. Kind of a funny example of how much I did: About a month after I moved out, she went on the first grocery run she had been on since before our son's birth. Even she mentioned how weird it was to go back after such a long time.
7. I spent too long fighting her and trying to make the fights stop. When things cooled down, I tried to figure out what I could do to make her feel happier and more supported. The fights kept happening. That was one of the major contributors to my moving out. I didn't want to and still feel it was a bad decision for my marriage. But she was right to say that our fights were out of control and were going to negatively effect our son. It was right to get him away from that chaos. And yes, that did make me want to drink more. To escape and relax.
8. Yes, a very vicious cycle. We were caught in it for far too long. The changes I've made over the last 2 months have helped us pull out of it. She still will unleash rage on me and make crazy statements (even to the level of paranoia), but but I have made it clear I'm not going to be talked down to and I'm not going to fight with her. This has worked. It has kept me from joining in and blowing things to pieces. After she goes off now, she will usually reach out to apologize later in the day.
9. About a month ago, I approached her just with behavioral clues. About 5 years ago, she had a short lived one-sided EA with a coworker. After I found out, she apologized, followed through with my limits on how to move on, and we entered therapy. I saw a lot of those same behaviors coming up and told her I had seen them and that it reminded me of our past experience. She denied, but, interestingly, dropped the matter quickly. She doesn't know that I now have proof. I'm giving it time and continuing to read the resources on here and DR before I make that decision. It appears this one is very fantasy-driven as well, and it's possible she was just dropped by the person based on some of the things I've seen.
I'm continuing to learn how to be a better me and pull myself out of this pursual-withdrawal cycle. The DBing is having some effect of some kind as she has mentioned noticing some changes, hugs me every time I'm around, and has even told me she loves me. Again, not trusting any of it. I love her, but I know we are far from any kind of reconciliation. Just sharing information.
I watch too much myself and believe it really messes your view and approach to sex and intimacy. Sure a historical contributor in my sitch, event though W knows and has never really mentioned it. We even watched porn together, but that something totally different.
I have stopped at this time. I fear it is too late, but, either way, I need to have power over this if I'm going to be helpful to my son with this ever present issue.
And yeah, I agree. It messes with how you see the world as a whole, I think.
My wife has said she always knew when I had been looking at it, even without seeing the proof. I doubted that, but after the surfacing of another EA for her, I understand what she's saying. I knew both times before I saw a shred of proof.
Thank you for answering so many questions. It really helped in having a better overview of the situation. It's so sad, and so......unnecessary for this M to experience a D. I applaud you for being painfully honest, and for taking steps to overcome habits and thinking of how your son could face the same issue one day. We have a former poster who was kicking the porn addiction the last we heard. Supposedly, his W's reasons for divorcing him was based on his addiction. I think she eventually went through with it, but he was determined to overcome the addiction for his own sake.
I can see how you would drink at night after she went to bed so early and you were taking up slack in the house chores. IDK why she objected so much, considering she was going to bed so early and leaving house chores........unless her feelings toward the drinking were linked with how she was raised or her religion. Based on your previous post, I assume it wasn't affecting your behavior. Okay, moving on to other things, let's talk about what changed in her after the baby was born.
As you probably know, there are many changes made during a woman's pregnancy and childbirth. Postpartum depression is very common, and I think a lot of women do not discuss it with their doctor. There is a level of guilt with this depression, b/c we are "suppose" to feel joy when a baby comes into our lives. Therefore, some women stay quiet. If her hormones are out of whack, she's not going to feel much joy. Also, depending on her situation and loss of sleep, she can become physically and mentally exhausted. I say all of this, trying to give her the benefit of doubt for how she reacted to most everything you did. You.......meaning, her closest target. I've read that untreated postpartum depression can last as long as five years!
I get her lack of self esteem and how all of this fed into making it worse. Plus, she felt she failed in the nursing department, so things for her were not improving very much. Bottom line, I think she felt unhappy and whenever a woman is unhappy with herself and within her MR.......she is vulnerable, IMHO. She may reach out to her female friends and close family for emotional support. She may not receive positive encouragement, but rather, told she needs to get out of her M, and go find happiness. Unfortunately, that is the quick answer some friends & family give, especially if they have not had positive experiences with marriage.
What really caught my eye was her going to bed by 7:30, even if family was there. I immediately thought she was having an emotional affair, imaginary affair, or Internet affair. Some men laugh at the idea of an imaginary affair, but let me explain. For many unhappy & bored women who are not receiving the romantic attention they crave, or their emotional needs are not being met....... will turn to romance novels. You know, those cheap paperback type, where the hero is always rich, handsome, powerful, sexually dominating, etc. These books are mostly written by female authors, and it appeals to the emotionally starved reader. Well, after reading so many books, she starts comparing her H with these romantic fictional characters, and the H comes up short. Some of this comparison may be unconsciously, as far as identifying what she's doing at the time, but it is the results of seeing her H not measuring up to what she desires in a man. It may sound crazy, but this can have an emotional affect on her, much the same way an EA with a real life person would have. Some women can get struck on a celebrity the same way, until it damages her admiration and desire for her H. It is emotionally unbalanced and unhealthy. Anytime she has another guy (real or fiction) in her head more than her H, it is going to have an affect on her desire for him. The common thread that links these type of affairs is fantasy. So, my question here is.......what did she do when she went to bed at 7:30. Did she read, watch a particular/regular TV series, movies with the same male lead? If not.........then you might be able to scratch an IA off the list.
Did you ever look in on her, shortly after she retired? Was she on her laptop or phone? Even if she was, it doesn't indicate an affair........but IMHO, it indicates she wanted space from her H, at the least. Now, if she returned to work after her maternity leave, and she was so physically exhausted she had to go to bed at 7:30, it seems to me she would fall to sleep fairly fast. Some people need some down time before they can drift off to sleep, and they'll watch TV or read. It doesn't mean their motive is questionable. However, when you put everything together in this situation, it does raise my suspicion. Her self-esteem was in the tank; she could have been getting negative opinions to leave the M; there was no quality time together; she nit-picked until a fight broke out; the sex immediately dropped off; and she wouldn't stay up a little later when company was there. Oh, and another thing..........she had an EA in the past. I don't believe that once a cheater--always a cheater, applies in all cases. However, if the cheater got off fairly light without any consequences or didn't take steps in preventing another EA, then I do think it is easier for them to cheat again.
I wish more men understood how an emotional affair affected a woman. She is an emotional being, and her feelings are linked to everything in her life. It doesn't make her less intelligent or capable of doing a job as well as the man. She's just wired differently. Both genders can be vulnerable when they are unhappy, but they might reach out in different ways. A man might turn to sex, whereas, the woman would be more likely to respond to a male who fed her ego. Both of them are seeking some type of gratification, but maybe in different ways. I wish men would take take the W's EA seriously, b/c of its affect on her heart/mind. I felt that you were not too worried about a possible EA based on fantasy. Fantasy is the key word, especially when a married woman is infatuated with another man. The other man may never know about her feelings, or on the other hand, it could lead to a PA. Based on what I've read, it appears that most H's can brush off an imaginary affair, or even an EA as long as it doesn't get physical......depending on the individual situation, of course. For example, if he knows this OM personally, then he might not take to her having private conversations with him.
Whenever you and your W reconcile, I hope you will stress how important it will be that there will be no secret/private friendships, and no phone/computer conversation with members of the opposite sex that aren't blood relatives. That may sound stupid to modern day thinkers, but I'm telling you that marriages are breaking up across the world due to all this easy and private means of inappropriate interaction. Couples have been led to believe they can have "friends" with members of the opposite sex, and they dare not question it. Why then, is the most common response whenever confronted by the faithful spouse is......."We are just friends", as if it excuses or gives a hall pass to continue this exclusive, inappropriate vocabulary. The cheater thinks they've fooled their spouse, while the cheater has an emotional affair right under the nose of the faithful spouse.
That could lead to the question of what is considered cheating. In too many cases, I think both the LBS and the wayward spouse use "cheating" to define physical sex outside the M. If that's the case, people need to wake up and realize they are being duped into opening doors for all type of inappropriate behavior while claiming they never cheated. We see it happening right here on the board, time after time. This inappropriate behavior can become very addictive. She's getting her ego fed, and the fantasy allows her mind to carry things into far away galaxies at any given time (she doesn't necessarily have to be in direct contact for imagination to work). Add the fact that inappropriate contact with OM is done in secret, creates more adrenaline, which gives it excitement that her MR was definitely lacking. Perhaps you can understand the addictive power of an EA, based on your personal experience with porn. You had no physical interaction with another woman, but you received gratification, and it drew you back time & time again. It's said that men are sexually stimulated through touch and sight, and that makes sense when linked with porn. Women are initially stimulated through verbal or written words of admiration. That's why a man needs to start making love to her mind, before he starts trying to touch her. That's basically what the OM does in her EA, and it draws her back time & time again. However, the addiction of an EA can be broken and her true feelings for her H can return, once the OM is out of her head.
It sounds as if you tried to make things better, to relieve some of the stress on her. You went long period where the porn and/or drinking wasn't the main issue.......and it sounds as if she developed almost a hair-trigger reaction to very small things you would do (leave a towel on the floor, lock the screen door, etc.) So, whatever was going on with her, it was emotionally unhealthy, to the point she was considering divorce. Now, you are here, wanting to know how to save your M. I apologize for this long post. You'll be happy to know that the other board members are not as wordy. Anyway, I will continue when I hear back from you. Hopefully, other members will join in with their thoughts.
In the meantime, study Divorce Remedy, read the links on the "homework" or welcoming post you received. It is a lot, but it is very informative. Again, thanks so much for answering my questions.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I definitely take EA seriously. The fantasy part just opens the door to everything else. And blinds her to the destruction her actions can cause Since posting, I have come across evidence that fully confirms EA and some may point to PA. It's even possible she went to see OM tonight. I am just trying to make it day by day. I don't really know how to proceed. DB'ing seemed to have some positive effect. She recently told me she might consider waiting more time before pursuing divorce. I have some evidence she was let down/rejected by OM a few days before this statement, so I'm treating it like temp checking. I am so angry and hurt bc she cut me off sexually for so long and could very well be giving her body to some OM with no investment in her life. Trying to decide if I would even take her back of she wanted to work things out. I don't know if I could ever look at her the way a husband views a wife again. The way she has snuck around and (poorly) hidden her actions makes me want to cut her off and let her pursue this meaninglessness while I build a better life for me and my son. I got on this forum to help me save my marriage, but I fear my WW is making decisions I will not be able to forgive/come back from. Being cut off sexually for so long only to be cheated on cuts me deep. I don't know if I'll be able to look at her again without thinking about how she has been with OM. I
I got on this forum to help me save my marriage, but I fear my WW is making decisions I will not be able to forgive/come back from. Being cut off sexually for so long only to be cheated on cuts me deep. I don't know if I'll be able to look at her again without thinking about how she has been with OM.
It is all so horrible. Nobody can tell you how to feel. In my book, your feelings would be what I call a natural response. Doesn't mean right or wrong, it just seems logical that a healthy minded man would react this way.
Frankly, I am more concerned for the betrayed H who immediately starts saying he forgives his cheating W.......before she even gives a hint of change. I mean, he is so focused on just getting her back........regardless, just get the woman back. It's all he thinks about, and he's not allowing his feelings to process naturally, IMHO. These are the LBH's who struggle with deep resentment after their WW comes back. He has her back home, the OM is out of the picture, and then......he starts reflecting and his feelings turn bitter and unforgiving, and it's these LBH's will often become a WAH.
There are many, many cases of sexually starved MR's, where the W develops a wayward mindset and eventually cheats. I think the reason she cuts off her H, is b/c her lack of respect killed the attraction, so she doesn't desire him. When she becomes involved with OM, even if they haven't physically had sex yet, it can jump-start her sexual urges. That's why in some cases the WW will suddenly become very sexually active with her unsuspecting H, especially if she can't get to OM. Disgusting, but the H is used like a tool.
Things can turn around. It is possible, as long as there is willingness and commitment on both sides.......but it's not easy. It is not simple and/or fast. I wish it were. There is so much work she has to do within her heart/mind......not to mention the healing you would need.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
There have been some interesting new developments, and I'm working every day to not let them change how my DB'ing ways.
It's possible she saw OM last week. I stupidly tried to bring up the subject of her plans that night, and I think she saw right through it. Very defensive. Had a story about hanging out with a friend. Could be true, could be not. The friend is a clear enabler who barely knows me, so who knows.
The next morning she texted me, suggesting we get together to talk that night. Shortly after that, she called and tried to start an argument about something kinda related to the night before. I told her I'm not arguing and she will speak to me with respect or not speak to me. She cooled her jets and we talked it through.
Met up with her that night and we sat and talked for about 2 hours. She is very confused about my 180 and doesn't know what to think about it. She is afraid I've hired a lawyer. I have not and told her as much. I let her know if she is intent on divorce, I will not fight her or beg her to stay. And I will not send us into court unless it becomes necessary for myself and my needs as a father. She says she won't get in the way of my relationship with my son.
She initiated a R talk and stated she just doesn't know how we got here and wishes we weren't in this position. I kept my cool and told her that I would have chosen almost any other path for us to take as a couple and family besides this one. She cried for a while and embraced me. I maintained my detached demeanor, but I was supportive. She talked about "if" we decide to fix things on some future date and expressed doubts about whether she really wants a divorce and if we could ever get over some of the hurt in our relationship. I let her know I have realized a lot of my own needs and I would expect full commitment to the marriage before I'd be willing to work on things. That right now I'm focused on continuing to build a good life for myself and my son. I told her I would not choose to split apart our family for no reason, but that I had finally realized there are things that could lead me to make that choice.
The next day, I brought S back to her place after spending the afternoon with him and she asked me to stay. She again initiated an R talk. I let her know I won't compete for her love and I wont' share her with anyone else. That I will only be with someone who is fully committed to me whether it's her or someone else. She maintains there is no one else. She had some explanations that could or could not be true. Who knows. One thing I know about myself, is that I tend to worry about infidelity, so I'm trying to take my own thoughts/feelings with a grain of salt. Friends have given me good guidance that right now I'm freaked out and likely to interpret anything as proof of the worst. I still don't believe her. I am just trying really hard not to let my mind go so far down that road. I'm torn between not caring and trying to find hard evidence. Is it helpful to find evidence?
Anyways after the discussion had died down and I was about to leave, she just jumps on me and starts making out with me. I let it happen. Not sure if that was the right move. I liked it, but I didn't push. She brought up the idea of sex and said she was uncertain. I said simply that I wouldn't beg for anything and left it at that. We spent some time close that night and she recounted good memories from our past. I left after that.
Over the last few days she has been back and forth. Initiating contact then not. Yesterday, she suggested we spend time together with S. We had a good time. I focused mainly on him and was just friendly with her. She again brought up good memories from the past and shared a lot about what's going on for her professionally right now. I was polite and confident.
I'm not believing anything she says and only half what she does. The confusing things lately couple with her saying she now has doubts about D (previously stated it was the only option) are hard to follow. I'm sticking with DB'ing. Sometimes I want to reach out, so I call a friend instead. It doesn't feel good to think she's toying with me, but I hold that as the most likely scenario. Until she says shes 100% committed, I have to fight the urge to think anything has really changed for her.
Thanks for listening. Any advice/thoughts you have are always so helpful and appreciated.
