WAW - is it too late?

[RVM]

When I speak about a quick comeback.......I'm not talking about witty comebacks. Separate funny playing from put-downs, jabs, etc. It's not helpful, or right, for the WW to make a snide remark and if you call her out about it.......she claims she was just joking. You have to distinguish between what is acceptable when verbally joking/playing..........and where to draw the line. I've seen couples start out smack talking each other.......and eventually, one is going to go too far. That is a behavior that should cease immediately, when you have a WW. I mean, the H needs to stop his funny jabs or bantering. You have a WW who is disrespecting you, so nothing is funny about it, and she can't be given slack. Since it feels natural for you to respond with something witty........you may need to be extra careful. FWIW, I think you were referring to when she's not saying something disrespectful. Still, I urge you to not engage in smack talk.........b/c that is an invitation for verbal disrespect, and what can you say if she claims it wasn't serious? It's about drawing lines, and respecting those lines.

While talking about bantering, how do the two of you interact around your couple friends, relatives, or when you are out in public? Let's say the two of you are attending a cook-out and there are several people there. Do the two of you banter with each other there? I mean, you see it as all being good fun, right? At whose expense? Does it ever hit below the belt? Do you ever feel as if she tries to make you the butt of her jokes......then you have to one up? This is important, so I hope you will answer.

Since the BD, I’ve only made witty, jokey comebacks when we are both clearly joking. However, in those early months post-BD, when she would make some kind of unprovoked snide remark or slightly under her breath personal attack, I would respond with a biting comeback and sometimes my comebacks were nasty. Once I started reading about WWS, coming to this forum, etc I changed that tactic and stifled (for the most part), some of my nasty comebacks. Occasionally, I’ll make mistakes and get drawn in.

I also don’t always just let her get away with her under the breath comments. When I’m in a good mindset, I can just quietly and confidently squash it. And, sometimes in her presence – when she’s acting smug or arrogant, I’m like a frayed live wire and just try to physically get out of her sight so I don’t make a really nasty comment or call her out on everything she’s done. It’s just I don’t know when she’ll do this, and it will sometimes catch me off my guard and I emotionally react rather than stoically respond.

As far as interacting together around others – we are generally respectful and occasionally act as if everything’s normal. It does make me seethe under the surface at times. Mostly, because it just illustrates how good she is at lying and leading a double-life. She’ll occasionally make a personal jab at me in front of others, which prior to BD, I might have laughed off more and not taken it seriously. But, since BD and flags being raised, it’s been a bit more of a challenge to accept these jabs from someone who has clearly disrespected our M in the worst possible way.

The one thing that has increased from her is her possessiveness she displays in front of others with me in earshot: i.e. calling our kids – “her kids” or our house “her house” etc. I’ve called her out on this a few times. But, it still comes out occasionally.

For sure, you don't respond the same way you would do if she wasn't behaving suspiciously or saying something snide. If you've already told her you aren't going to tolerate being spoken to in that manner, then you need to practice various scenarios, and how you would respond. When I say practice, I mean you get somewhere nobody else will be able to observe, and if there is a mirror......even better.

You know some of her snide remarks directed at you, so practice how you would call her out on it. I don't think you should call her out in front of anyone. As soon as you are alone with her after the offense, you tell her she showed disrespect. You speak calmly, slowly, and seriously. You don't threaten or give an ultimatum. (Boundaries are not ultimatums.) Be sure you are standing and your body language reflects strength & confidence.

This has been an on-going behavior, and you want it stopped. If she apologizes, sincerely, (not one of those mad, sulky apologies, or where she tries to make it your fault), then you can accept her apology, but it doesn't change your stand. Don't accidentally say, "Oh, that's okay".

I’ll try this out.

Let's talk about her spewing. Is she spewing about you to you? Is she spewing about the kids, in front of the kids? Give me a little more information here. If she is not cussing out her H, screaming to the top of her lungs........then, sure, I could see him calmly listening......even validating her feelings, as long he understands what validation is and what it isn't. I think most women have times they need to vent about their day or a particular situation. Personally, I'm not what you would consider-----passive. So, when I am venting, I usually show a lot of---passion.

However, I don't swear, threaten, resort to name calling, throw things, yell/scream, or any of that type of behavior. Listening to your W vent her frustration, is not an excuse for you to put up with her ugly treatment. Know the difference? She can vent without getting angry out of control, etc.

Her outright spewing at me has quieted down recently. She doesn’t yell at me. But, it was really bad in early months post-BD as I was super emotional and accusatory and argumentative with her.

Now, her nastiness is mostly under her breath, snide remarks about me or how I do things – either directly at me or within earshot of me to others. Or she’ll just stonewall me. She’s always been OCD about how things are done around the house or things involving the kids. But, they’ve become magnified and made more as personal attacks of me since BD.

Pre-BD, I had no problem arguing with her about these things as I never appreciated someone watching over my shoulder as I’m loading the effing dishwasher or taking out the garbage too soon (“there’s still a little space in there, don’t it out yet”). Pre-BD, I would still do it 90% of the time my way.

Early days, post-BD, I did EVERYTHING her way. And, now, I’m almost 100% back to my way again. But, it’s the snide comments that I haven’t had a good strategy for stifling as my emotions will occasionally run hot now because of our sitch. It has become a million times more difficult to accept petty criticisms from someone who may be cheating on you, than someone who is commited to you.

Post-BD, her spewing at the kids when they misbehave has gotten much worse too. I’ve heard her calling them “brats”, “acting like jerks”, or telling them “they are worst behaved people she’s ever met.” She is a yeller too. And, a nasty yeller at that. And, it has gotten worse when it comes out.

I did confront her after a recent episode where the kids were talking back to her, she blew up at them, and stormed out of the room. Both of the girls were crying and told me “she is so mean to us”, “she hates us”, etc. I went to our MBR and without any emotion told her how bad their reaction was and asked her to go talk to them separately and explain why she was so upset. I didn’t want the kids going to bed without a resolution. She accepted my concern and later did so.

The weird thing is, when she’s not yelling at them, she is so “schmoopy-schmoopy” with them. Like telling them in a weird tone and facial expression how much she loves them and showering them with hugs. This is a daily occurrence now. It’s very awkward for me to witness, but I guess that’s part of her WWS script now. She must have some guilt about what’s happened to our F.

Okay, I see a lot of H's who have NGS want to just walk away whenever his WW is obviously disrespecting him in front of his kids or others. That's how nice-guys deal with bad behavior. If a discussion doesn't work, their next step is to walk away. Sometimes, that is the only thing you can do....at the moment. Let's break this down and maybe clarify.

(1) Don't confuse the issue of respect with the subject of detaching. We aren't talking about detaching here.

(2) The appropriate action is to disengage from the WW, who is out of control, or trying to fight you. The goal is to prevent a physical altercation, a loud verbal fight, and scaring the kids to death. You don't want the cops called. We have seen a couple wayward wife cases where the WW called the cops on her H, with bogus allegations, and the cops arrested the H in those particular cases. If it is a case of she said----he said, I think they take the woman's word over the man's, if there are no witnesses. Now, my question to you......is this the type of situation you were referring to when you said walk away?

(3) When the issue is less about avoiding a fight, and more about addressing the WW's obvious disrespect, the goal should be to command (not demand) respect under his own roof, and to teach his children to be respectful. If they see mom showing disrespect for daddy, then they will do it, too. Before there is another incident, he can calmly approach his WW about how her disrespectful comments (and/or behavior) make him feel. If she apologizes and says she will try to be more respectful, the H can respond by saying thanks, and end it. However, if it happens the second time, then he needs to firmly inform her that he will not tolerate disrespect in front of his children (or other people). By the third offense, he should be prepared to enforce an effective boundary.

Yes, this is the situation I was referring to when I will just walk away. I realize it isn’t necessarily a long term effective strategy, and based on her expressions I can picture her smugly giggling to herself when I walk away.

I don’t always do it, but I am trying to when she touches a nerve. I’ve gotten better about detaching as I look at her differently now, so these situations dosn’t always get me emotional, but sometimes they do. And, rather than react with a nasty putdown comeback, I’m working on removing myself from the situation and responding to her in a detached manner later.