1st Anniversary of Limbo, Indecisive WAH (part 2)

[Pommy99]

May, I think that’s a great idea, to write the letter but not give it to him. I think it will help me process some of the guilt that I am feeling. H tells me it’s in the past and we need to look forwards (whatever the outcome) , but I don’t feel like it’s been dealt with. He himself uses the term “psychological blockage” in reference to having sex with me. If (big IF) we have any chance of R then this needs to be dealt with in some way. He is not seeing an IC, he keeps saying he will but then does nothing. I guess he’s really not motivated to.

We haven’t really discussed the “trial” separation. However at the weekend he did say that in his mind we were breaking up and he was not going to be wearing his wedding ring. I was pretty miffed at this. I thought a trial was a time of reflection whilst still married, to understand if you wanted to be in the marriage or not. I feel he’s looking to see how much fun he can have out on his own. He did say that he wants the period of time to live life not feeling that I am there as his wife, to not have me to fall back on, and wearing his ring would be a reminder of me. I explained that I felt it was giving me and everyone else a message of being single and if that’s his approach then we should just separate and not pretend it’s anything other than a full breakup. He did then acknowledge my point of view and said he would keep his ring on. I asked him to do what he felt was right for him, and not what would appease me. Let’s see how this ends up. Of course I will have no idea if he is wearing it or not!

On Monday night H greeted me after work with a huge hug. He’d been reflecting on what I had told him about the IC’s comments: when was I going to accept that he didn’t want to be in the marriage, etc. It had made him feel sad that I had to even have that conversation with the IC. It was making him question again how he could feel so strongly about me, but at the same time need to leave. He admitted that he was frightened, and that the closer MO becomes a reality, the more frightened he becomes. I didn’t ask him to stay, I didn’t say it’s not too late to change your mind, I simply validated and kept my thoughts to myself. I am trying to keep my fears at bay will endeavour to view the time as a positive step, and not a bridge to divorce .

[oceangrl]

Hey Pommy,

Just wanted to check in and see how you are doing. Hope everything is going okay. You sound in the post above like you are keeping a good head on your shoulders.

[Pommy99]

Hey OG
Not good , found out today that OW has been contacting H again FaceTime/calls. His iPad rung with her number 10.30pm while he was away. I casually asked him today if he’d been in touch with her lately and he lied and said no. I started off calm and asked for respect and honesty as I knew he was being untruthful. He must’ve assumed I had no evidence to back up my assumption that they were in touch again. He’d deleted the call off his phone, he had no idea that it had rung on his iPad. He’s adamant she only called to see how he was and that they hadn’t been in touch for a couple of months. I’ve heard all these lies before. He’s adamant that she’s nothing to do with the way he feels about me.

I don’t know what to do about trial separation - we had agreed no dating/sex but I don’t even know if I trust that . In which case do I just tell him that it’s a full separation and a bridge to D? He is MO next weekend .

[AnotherStander]

I don’t know what to do about trial separation - we had agreed no dating/sex but I don’t even know if I trust that .

You absolutely cannot trust him. We've seen this countless times here before, these trial separations with rules attached that the WAS completely ignores but expects the LBS to abide by. If you're going to separate then make it clear to him that you DO NOT agree to no dating/ no sex or any other rules. I am not saying that you should go date and have sex, but what I am saying is you're going to make him wonder. He will for the first time feel a little bit of control slip away, and he will start to wonder if he may lose you.

In which case do I just tell him that it’s a full separation and a bridge to D? He is MO next weekend .

No need to threaten D. One step at a time. If he's determined to leave then insist on full S with no requirements attached. If you're living separately or will be as part of the S (sorry I'm not completely up on your sitch) then you should insist that he can't just drop by unannounced whenever he wants. He needs to let you know in advance, ask your permission, and knock or ring when he gets there. He's firing you as W, he needs to understand that that means he doesn't get to have a part-time W when it suits him.

[Pommy99]

Thank yoU AS. This is really hard. I’m so angry right now, I’m trying so hard to keep composed and not yell at him to GTFO right now. Find somewhere. Anywhere.

It’s so hard trying to be an effing lighthouse when all I want is for him to smash himself against the rocks. How do I refocus?

It is going to be a big step telling him no trial separation, just full separation. I feel like I am doing what he has wanted all along, to make it easy for him to exit the marriage.

[may22]

Hey Pommy,

I'm really sorry about the OW situation. I am not surprised though and I imagine you really aren't either. There were just so, so many similarities to how your H was behaving and how mine was and it all makes so much more sense when there is another person involved. I would definitely be prepared for it to be more than an EA and that to be his primary motivator in MO. She may be pushing him. I'm sure he is honestly scared $hitless and confused and all the rest. But the H he is being right now is not the H you want in your life, right?

I read over and over when my H told me ILYB that for men 95% of the time there is an OW when those words come out. I said as much to my H early on and he was like "you believe anything you read on the internet." But... it does seem to be true. Seems like the best thing to do is assume she exists, assume it is worse than you think it is, and see how you feel about that and go from there. He's lying and you just can't trust what he's saying right now.

This is his journey. You can't make these decisions for him. As awful as it all is, the only way is through it. (I don't know if you have this children's song in the UK about going on a bear hunt and you come to these obstacles and you can't go over them or under them or around them, you have to slog through them? If so, maybe that is a good analogy. It all $ucks but the only way is to go through it with your head held high and see where you are on the other side.)

On the trial S vs S... what is really the difference in your mind? Is it that you imagine a trial S has an end date and he'll move back in at the end? He wears his ring? He doesn't date? I don't actually see much of difference between the two right now. Either way you both get the space you both need-- him to figure out his $hit and you to continue to focus on yourself, detaching, and healing so that you are in a place where you KNOW you're going to be great no matter what happens with your H-- and in either scenario you can end up back together, or not.

FWIW, we talked a little (my H and I) about a trial separation back in December (before I knew the full extent of his A). I said I could be possibly open to him living in the basement but would need his assurance that he wouldn't be in touch with AP. In retrospect there is absolutely no way that would have happened, and was just me trying to continue to establish control over the situation. Once I found out the full extent of the A and we talked about S/D, it was not trial. It was if you walk out this door, we are over. We will not be friends. I will be a cordial co-parent. That is it. And I went about my business collecting financial documents and 100% honestly planning out my life down that path. And I knew I would be OK even though I was furious and sad and knew that the next steps were going to be rocky and steep and exhausting and treacherous. (Now I guess I'm on a hike!)

Maybe for you, can you drop the control piece? You can't control his behavior if you S. (You can't control it now, either.) You can only control yours. So he can wear his wedding ring, or not. He can be in touch with OW or not. It doesn't matter. What matters is YOU and how you move forward and fill your days with people who care about you and things and experiences that enrich you.

And on the wedding ring piece specifically-- I never told my H I wanted him to wear it. I watched it go on and off over two years, wondering why it took him longer and longer to put it back on if he took it off for surfing or yoga. I asked him about it a few times and he said surfing, yoga, forgot to put it back on... and then honestly once we started talking seriously about our MR-- probably for the last year-- he said that the troubles in our R were also part of him not being particularly motivated to put it back on. And of course the A played enormously into that as well. When he didn't wear it on his trip in November, I was kind of devastated. But I didn't say a word. And now that he has put it back on-- I think there is actual meaning there, he knows it means something to me but I didn't tell him to do it and he is making the choice to do it himself. Making your H wear his ring during your S doesn't mean anything. Seeing what he does on his own could possibly be a window into how he's feeling, but not if he's only doing it because he thinks you want him to.

HUGS, Pommy. I know how hard this is. You are strong and smart and know what is important in life. FWIW your H doesn't deserve you. Hopefully he can come to his senses and earn his way back in, but for now I think you need to loosen your grip and let him go. (We are all going to get hot, kind, generous, honest, faithful, amazing dads/fathers/lovers in our next lives for sure!)

[cardinal]

I hope May's words are helping you refocus. They help me refocus!

I feel like I am doing what he has wanted all along, to make it easy for him to exit the marriage.

I want to gently push back on this. As May pointed out, maybe there is, in the end, not that much difference between trial S/S--or at least, that difference is mostly created by your fear of the potential future outcome of S, which you don't have control over either (I am trying to get better at accepting this lack of control myself). And it might be accepting this and giving him the time/space that makes it harder for him to exit the marriage after all. The alternative, which is maybe trying to control him or how he approaches the S/what he does during it, might actually make it easier for him to exit, in his foggy mind.

(((Pommy)))

[Pommy99]

Yesterday was an ugly day. We fought and argued over OW and the lies, we had R talks where he expressed so much negativity about our M prior to the last 12 months, how he wanted to be out of the M back then, and nothing has changed in a year, that he doesn’t see us reconciling in future because of the way he feels about me. He accused me of being vindictive, that he was seeing the old me, the true me.

Today I feel just about every negative emotion I could possibly feel towards him and the M. The contrast between last weekend and this weekend is huge. Last week he was vulnerable, and tender towards me; since coming back from the city he’s been distant and unemotional. And in between there has been OW. And today is the 12 month anniversary of when I first uncovered the EA, when I overheard a secret phone call in the garden, in the pouring rain. Even then he lied and told me it was his brother (but he was forced to admit within a few minutes who it really was). And here we are, one year later, still being told lies and covering up phone calls.

Re the trial S vs S, for me trial is a kind of time out to reflect on the marriage, whilst still being married, looking inwards towards the marriage and giving consideration to if/how it could work. Trial is not looking to date other people, because if you want a R outside the marriage then you should not be in the M. Trial is still accepting that there may be no recon at the end. Full separation is looking away from M, going it alone, living and acting a single life, being free to have other relationships. The M is no more, S is a bridge to divorce.

Right now, I want the whole M to end. I don’t want a trial, I want a D. I hate him and what he is doing to us. I want to tell him I’m going to file for D but I fear I’m just reacting to yesterday’s events and the fact that he is signing his rental contract later today. But I really want him to know this is over, that I’m not his friend and if he walks out he’s never coming back. Am I being too hasty?

For an entire year he has chosen OW over me, even though in his mind he’s tried to make things work and tried to get his feelings back, she has still been there somewhere. There isn’t room for the both of us in his life, I’m not going to be sidelined as just a friend if he has romantic interests in her. This is why I want to say to him today that I don’t want to be his wife or friend anymore, I just want to walk away. There is no trial S if he is distancing himself from me and continuing any kind of R with her. I can’t operate under those terms. That’s not me trying to control him, that’s me accepting that he wants her in his life, and I’m not going to be part of it.

[may22]

I feel you, Pommy. I feel you 110%. My only recommendation at this point is to breathe and take your time. Give it a week or so and see how you still feel. You can't control him, you can only control you, and making any long-term decisions when your emotions are running so high is probably not a great idea. After I found out about the extent of my H's affair, I had a call with my coach (who already knew, because H had had a call with her and told her everything). She kept the same DB-ing advice from prior but added that I should take some time before making a decision since I was quite upset.

Hope you're doing ok.

[Pommy99]

Hi May, it’s been an awful weekend. H signed the lease yesterday. I was shell shocked, I guess I clinging on to the hope that he might change his mind. I have switched into angry phase and I told him in the middle of the night he has to leave today, not next weekend. He came to find me this morning to talk about why I was angry. I told him that it was anger regarding his lies about OW, the anxiety and paranoia i’d felt for 12 months, that he’d put her friendship above mine, that I should have said enough way before now, but that I didn’t because I was trying to repair the marriage, and now even this last week, he’s still lying to me. His response was that to him it was just a friendship and it seemed easier to not say anything about being in contact with her. And I disagreed and said you covered it all up because you knew on some level it was inappropriate, you told her you loved her, and even when sober 2 days later you told me you didn’t know if you were in love with her or not. That we were never going to repair a marriage in crisis whilst you were having an EA. And he apologised and said I had every right to be angry, and hadn’t realised before now how much this had hurt me and for such a long time. And he was very quiet. I was very composed and unemotional in my delivery. He went and made my breakfast and I left for work.

So now what? I have no idea what next. My emotions are changing by the hour, although I am feeling more in control during this angry phase, and not clingy or upset. I could’ve WFH today, with him, but don’t want to see him, be in the same space as him. He’s moving at the weekend. I’m trying not to think about it. I know I’m not in a good place emotionally and I honestly don’t know how to be with him right now. I don’t know whether to act loving, kind, distant, indifferent. My behaviour this morning has been hostile but calm - really pushing him away (like refusing to let him make me espresso and prep my lunch, insisting that he leaves ASAP.) How should I be acting here as nothing seems appropriate right now?