it's difficult to know what stage we're both at but that's very helpful. I would say she's been very remorseful and offered several sincere apologies. Oddly enough the bit that hasn't been forthcoming (willingness to do what is necessary, agreeing to terms) is the bit I've probably pushed most on, although she's said she would now do that (without me asking).
You cannot pressure her to reconcile. That doesn't mean that you have to back down from your terms to her coming back. Know the difference? It's very important that you understand you can't apply emotional pressure and drag her back into the MR. When talk of reconciliation comes up, you tell her the terms, then she is free to accept them or move on. The fear a lot of H's hold, is that she won't agree to the terms. Think about it, do you really want a wayward W back, if she refuses to the terms I suggested?
She has to be free to make the choice to come back. With that said, let me clarify that you are allowed to have stipulations about reconciling. She probably won't love the idea that she can't throw in her own terms for you, but it's her choice to agree, or move on without you. If she really wants to reconcile, then she has to agree to your terms. That's it. Don't wait until she's back home until you tell her. If the WW is remorseful, humble, etc., and truly wants to save her M, then she shouldn't have that big of a problem with the terms I've suggested. If she does have a huge problem and balks, let that be your warning bell.
Quote
It's difficult to know exactly what's going on behind the scenes and I've made peace now to not ask or investigate but that makes everything a bit more tricky. Would you ask for transparency for a period before she comes home? Would you want commitment for a period of time from all those points BEFORE having W home?
Why would you consider taking her back, without checking to see if she's still in contact with OM? There is a difference in gathering enough Intell to determine if she is still seeing OM, from snooping to read her email every day. Maybe that sounds as if I'm trying to talk out of both sides of my mouth, but LBH's get addicted to snooping, and then they have a big problem. All you need to know is if she & OM are still in contact. Once you know that she's still in contact with OM, there's no reason to continue gathering Intell. Beyond that.......it's just plain old spying, IMHO. Listen carefully, do NOT take her back, until you know she has ended the affair. At this point, you still can't afford to believe anything she says.
I've read about one other couple who divorced and then the WW wanted them to see if they could "work things out" or start over......whatever. He insisted on a transparency plan, which I didn't see how it could be effective with them living apart.........but she agreed, and eventually, she slipped up and he was savvy enough to catch it while digging through buried emails. So, he said good riddance and dropped her.
It's not enough for the WW to show you her phone, b/c that's just way too easy for her to manipulate the messages she doesn't want you to see. IMHO, all she needs to is "agree" to being transparent, and to giving you her passwords to her phone, email, etc. She may ask when you will look, or even "offer" her phone, but you never tell her anything. You don't tell her when you are going to look at her phone, and you don't tell her to go get it, or to show it to you. Why? B/c she has the opportunity to delete anything she doesn't want you to see. You don't look at her phone every day, nor at the same time of day. At some point, she'll lay her phone aside, and you will have a chance to look, without her knowledge. Why do I suggest without her knowledge, and why isn't that snooping? First, it isn't snooping if she agreed to it. And the reason you don't give her notice, or "warning", that you are about to look at her phone is b/c if she's being dishonest, you won't likely catch her on her phone. You have to be smarter than she is.
In 2020, there are many apps that provide services for cheaters, and you may have the opinion, "If she wants to cheat, she'll find a way". That's true, but the point of a transparency plan (from the viewpoint of a former WW) is to help her get through the horrible withdrawal stages after contact with OM has stopped. I went through withdrawals for months! However, I finally beat it, with the help of my board friends and knowing my H was searching my comp history. Sure, I there were other ways I could have contacted OM, but I didn't. And here's the thing, I wanted my H to see that I had really ended it. I had nothing to hide, so why should I mind?
Transparency doesn't have to last forever, but it's up to you to decide how often and for how long. Some H's go for a couple of yrs without looking, then decide to check.........and there it is. She has deceived him again. She gets use to him not looking and not saying anything about it, and she thinks it's clear to pick up old behaviors.....like cheating. It's very important that she has no idea when, or if, you'll check her phone. And the beauty of it, is that every WW will eventually get careless. She may be smart, but she will get careless.
I think you ask some valid questions about transparency and commitment before she moves back home. If I was the LBS, I would need verbal commitment before I agreed she could come back, plus her agreement to the other terms. I think having time to date each other, is okay, as long as it is exclusive and she's not trying to date others. You could ask if she would agree to transparency before she moves back, and if she'll give you her passwords. This is key, b/c she'll claim you are wanting to control her (which is the mantra of most WW's, and it's mostly hogwash). She'll complain that it is intrusion of privacy, etc. (which is true), but that's why it is a noteworthy sign that she really wants to prove herself. It may, or may not, take. If she doesn't want to do it, that's her choice, but you won't reconcile without it.
Is all of this as clear as mud?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
