Separated and facing divorce (Part 3)

[wayfarer]

As a parent with a 15 and 17 yo in my house a lot of things said above stress me out. One because 12 and 15 yos aren't babies. They just aren't. Sorry. Next y'all can parent as you please but courts are involved in these situations and whether you like it or not incidents like this needs to be handled with kid-gloves before it comes back to bite you in front of a judge.

In my state 12 years old is the age at which kids get a voice in visitation and placement outside of a GAL. They can make demands like mutually desired visitation or their primary placement. This is a legal consideration you really need to factor in moving forward, and you may want to look into that with your attorney.

FAMILY THERAPY minus the wife. She doesn't need to be there. It's not about her. You want the sessions to focus on why they don't want to be with you in your house. If W comes up in the process then maybe bring her in, but this mess is between you and your kids, and unless she's actively sitting there telling them you're trash and they'll be miserable by you, you need to fix this with them.

D15 is sick, most of her angst probably isn't about you. And probably is also about her mom basically kicking her out of the house when she feels awful. Keep asking her if she needs things. Love on her. Make the tea they way she likes it and give it to her. Don't ask. Get her some tissue with the vicks in it. She won't say no.

S12 guilt tripping him like that was not smart. There are better ways that could've been said. "Kiddo this is dad's weekend. We haven't seen much of each other lately and I'd really like it if you'd just give me a chance this weekend." You're the adult. I know it's super hard with tweens and teens to remember that sometimes but your kids are not your safe place to fall. You are. Your kids are not your peers, you are supposed to carry the emotional burden here and smile through the pain. It's what you signed up for. I don't think it was wrong of you to let him to go by mom's if that's really what he wanted but that part is the part you need to sit down with your wife and discuss. You guys need to be united for them if nothing else. You need to decided together if this visitation thing is going to be fluid or if you both are going to stand by mom's time is mom's time and dad's time is dad time, especially when it isn't as simple as crossing the street any more.

I'll leave you with what I recently had to tell my WH now that he's engaging with the kids again and brought up that he trying but won't "force it" and he's trying to make amends to them "in his own way."
~There's no line between making an effort and forcing it with your own kids. This isn't a friendship with adults. It's not a romantic relationship. It's your job to repair the relationship. Not theirs. Even if you have to shove your love down their throats until they are in a place to forgive and move on. Your feelings of rejection don't matter. Sorry. Next making things up to them isn't about doing it in your way. It's about doing it in theirs. That's what truly making amends requires. Giving them what they need to forgive and move on. Not what you need. Suck it up. ~

Clearly you didn't abandon your kids for 3 months to go bang some one who isn't your wife like my WH so you can take some of the anger out of that statement, but there were mistakes made here, and you have to own them and be the one to carry the burden of healing.

[Ready2Change]

"Because I love you and want to spend time with you." would be my answer to that question...

This^^^^

You can also add statements like:
"I know this is not what you want, but this is what your mother and I have agreed to"


This quote stands out from all the parenting books I read:
"The parents job is to set and enforce boundaries. It is the kids job to test the boundaries."


Children are master manipulators. Control your emotions and respond to their emotions with compassion and empathy, but remain firm on the boundaries.

You can handle this.

[Ready2Change]

My2Cents:

.... I told the WAS that I would take my son to gymnastics practice

Telling and asking are two different things. Everything boils down to agreements and exceptions. One of the agreements is parenting time. Who's parenting time was it? Your hers? Words have many meanings and different meanings to different people. Informing or offering are more specific ways of "telling." One of my goals is when communicating with X or my children or people in general is to reduce confusion and gain clarification.

* WAS **never** told the kids they were spending tonight with me, nor this weekend.

I communicate the parenting schedule with my children. If there is confusion, I clarify things with their mother and then confirm our agreement with the kids.

That really pissed me off.

Channel that anger into positive changes in you. Control your behavior. Ask yourself what is my learning experience here? What can I do from this point forward to help prevent this from happening in the future.

She claims she did last weekend,

Maybe / maybe note. Not your issue. Take ownership of communication with your kids. Make sure you and the mother are on the same page as far as parenting time and exchange times and places....in most cases, one or both parents are not going to like the arrangements...this is why the courts are involved. Some parenting arrangements are court ordered.

kids both said she didn't.

We all have selective attention spans. I always clarify with my kids when the next time I will see them. "I will see you this friday at 5pm. Enjoy your time at moms. love you!"

* D15 ended up with 2 ear infections and a sinus infection today. The WAS actually woke her up and told her to come to my house.

Being sick, is a perfect exceptions for the children to stay at the other parents house.

I tried offering her tea, or a movie, or to go out and get her anything, but she wasn't having it.

We can only do so much. At some point, I just wait for them to ask.

She hates being in this house.

I bet there is deeper reasons for the anger. Professional can help.

She told BLA BLA BLA she was ending her marriage before she told me. I don't even have the words to describe how that made me feel.

Pretty typical. They tell everyone but the one person that can actually change. I got the "I have been planning on divorcing you for years"....

had some tears

Him or you?

I'm trying not to be frustrated with my kids. I feel like they just don't want me in their lives. I

I think the 4 of us need to sit down and talk about how we are handling custody.

Discuss with W only. I do this through email. If you can't come up with an agreement, then the legal system will "help" you reach an agreement.


I had a highly contested custody battle with my X. She wanted full custody. She hired lawyer, I hired lawyer. They took all savings. We settled for 50/50. My kids were younger than yours at the time. They are 17+ now.

This is what my lawyer told me "It is your to loose". I took this to mean, "Do not give the opposition any reason to take your kids away."

[firemann]

Wow - thank you all for the replies. I am shopping around for a family psychiatrist to help untangle this not I've created. I do take ownership of the situation. Told my W of these plans and she liked it. She told the kids they were to stay with me this weekend too. I need to go behind her statement and reinforce that with the kids - ask them what they need to do or want to do.

I'm going to re-read the past few statements a few times this afternoon too.





A few things:
-------------------
* I am starting to notify my wife and kids what plans are at least a day in advance going forward.
* Trying to find time on the calendar to go to group therapy is almost impossible with 3 active people's schedules. I am trying - but wow. It is a challenge.
* I made an appointment with a new IC for me - one that specializes in abandonment, gaslighiting, infidelity and child alienation issues.

I must maintain compassion and empathy. I must not cave in to hate, and anger and resentment.

I am thinking of not being around when they move out next weekend. I am going back and forth with that decision.

[firemann]

Journaling
----------

The W moved out last weekend. I came home from running errands to find a crew of people moving her furniture from my house into a moving truck. She never communicated she was moving that day nor where she was moving too. I just felt this overwhelming feeling of being a failure, like I was at fault for all of this. Some of my neighbors were assisting and most wouldn't even look at me. I called my kids to make sure they were good to go and they said they were. The W stopped me to argue as to who got the Dyson vacuum cleaner. I couldn't think as I was just overwhelmed with sadness and asked her to give me a few days to think about giving it up. I left and just went to a few furniture stores - I was a complete wreck.I did manage to buy my son a replacement bed as my W took his in the move. I came home and the house just felt empty. I ended up calling the girl i was seeing (probably not the smartest decision) and she just listened to my woes.

I took yesterday off and tried tidying up the house. I made it through my son's room. i gathered all of his baby clothes, which wrecked me, and then I discovered he threw out all of his baby pictures in the trash. He moved out all of his gymnastics medals too. Talk about an emotional punch to the gut!!! I did manage to pick him up from practice and bring him to mom's house. I went home and went to bed.

I am seeing a new IC tomorrow and she's agreed to see my daughter too. My daughter? She's reluctantly agreed to go, but has already asked to spend my upcoming weekend at mom's "to adjust some more". My son stated he will stay where his sister stays.

I feel like I have regressed - my anxiety is back and I wake up every 90 minutes in the night. I feel a lot of self-imposed guilt that I'm trying to let go of. I just feel abandoned and depressed! I am still not on OD, which is a good thing. I remember feeling this way after the BD, but this time, it doesn't feel as bad. I have to force myself to be thankful of the things I do have.

I am still in NC with the W, minus 3 texts about the kids schedule. For some reason, I just started to miss her all over again. My heart seriously feels a lot of pain right now.

I'm working out tonight and have began studying how to refinish furniture.

[mtb1981]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but if I were in your shoes, I'd be making sure my kids were staying with me when it's my time to have them. If you keep letting it slide and send them to mom's every time they want, that's gonna become the new norm for them and you're just going to get squeezed out of the picture. Next thing you know, you're basically just an Uber, shuttling them back and forth from school/practice to your exW's…

I know that it's a tough adjustment for them, but things are gonna have to change. The more time they spend with you, the better. They will adjust to staying with you during your time just fine. You just need to be consistent. I think it's an important boundary that needs to be drawn now, and not months down the road. It will be harder the longer you put it off...

"I love you both very much and enjoy my time with you. When it is your scheduled time with me, you will be staying here, and when it's your scheduled time with your mom, you'll stay with her. I understand that this is hard for you guys, but this is the way things are going to be from now on now that your mother and I are divorced. So, what do you guys want for dinner tonight? Your choice. Let's pick up some food and rent a movie to watch tonight."...

Personally, I'd throw in those last lines to move on from the topic and not dwell on it. Kids don't know what is best for them in the long run. I get that they may want to stay with mom all the time, but what good does that do for your relationship with them in the future...

[ovrrnbw]

Yo Fireman,

[censored] to hear that she surprised you with the move, but on the bright side at least you didn't spend all week worrying about it. Just ripped that bandaid right off!

As for your son, well he is young. Don't let him throwing out baby pics get you down. Young men aren't the smartest and his perspective will change.

Take the kids on your days. Seriously. You don't have to be in their business 24/7 but take them. Kids without dads...have you read the statistics??? Time to be your best...

You got this man.

[Ready2Change]

Keep the photos until he is older.


Be supper dad. Your kids need you. They need to see you standup for your right as dad.

Whatever parenting arrangement you have, stick to the schedule. If you do not have 50/50, set that as a goal and fight for it.

[firemann]

Thanks guys - I am going to take your advice and push to have them now. My daughter called me on the phone last night and stated she wasn't mad at me, and wanted to spend time with me, however, she just did not want to spend nights in the house with me at all yet. I explained I loved her and that mom and I agreed on this schedule and she just became upset. We agreed to continue to talk today after she cooled off.

I did think it was incredibly brave she called to talk.

I am going to ask for my therapist today for her input too. I just don't understand why my daughter won't spend nights.

I txt'd the W too and told her I want the kids to stay with me during my scheduled time this weekend.

Lord, all of this BS due to a WAS. I wish someday for karma to come around to her for destroying this family.

[ovrrnbw]

Hey Firemann,

good to hear that you are going to push harder for the kids. I wouldn't worry about a therapists's thoughts as much as your own. Do you have any trusted, experienced family or friends that you could have help you? I'd go there for help.

Lord, all of this BS due to a WAS. I wish someday for karma to come around to her for destroying this family.

Not all of it is due to a WAS. Every LBS contributed to the situation that he or she is in. Detachment is not wishing ill upon her either Just breath and let it all go. You don't have to let it bother you at all.