1st Anniversary of Limbo, Indecisive WAH (part 2)

[may22]

Wow. He has got to slow his roll. I'm glad you are dealing with this all so calmly but he is all over the place. It isn't like if he misses out on this apartment he will never again be able to make the decision to leave... but once you tell the kids and move out, you are crossing a certain line that is hard to uncross. But anyway, none of that is about you, I am just feeling kind of like badly and watching a slow-motion car crash with him right now. Honestly, he sounds a lot like my H over the last couple of months.

I think you're doing absolutely the right thing. Stay strong!

[Pommy99]

Wow. He has got to slow his roll. I'm glad you are dealing with this all so calmly but he is all over the place. It isn't like if he misses out on this apartment he will never again be able to make the decision to leave... but once you tell the kids and move out, you are crossing a certain line that is hard to uncross. But anyway, none of that is about you, I am just feeling kind of like badly and watching a slow-motion car crash with him right now. Honestly, he sounds a lot like my H over the last couple of months.

I think you're doing absolutely the right thing. Stay strong!

He is a mess May, he has talked again this morning, says he really doesn’t know what he is doing or feeling right now. He came up behind me and wrapped his arms round me. He had his wedding ring back on. (He took it off 2 days ago as he noticed I had gone to work without mine, and he said he realised he was kidding himself by wearing it. I was hurt when I noticed but I didn’t get upset )

[may22]

I know this isn't DBing but I have said at one point or another to my H what is the rush? Chill out, slow down, take a breather. The decision to move out is a big one and telling the kids is (in my mind) this enormous watershed moment that will cause all these inevitable things to start to happen. I know that I'm probably over-dramatic on this, but that is how I feel and one of the reasons I've been willing to put up with so much prior to that happening.

Here are a few thoughts for you to leave or take. Could he take a weekend alone somewhere just himself to take a break from all of the drama and sit with his own mind? If he does decide to take the apartment, does it have to be "I'm leaving because I no longer want to bang your mom forever" or could it be "I'm having a rough time, I know you guys have seen that, I need to take some time and space to figure things out" without needing to announce quite yet that this is it, kids, we're splitting up!!"?

I do think your detachment and resisting any pursuit behaviors are probably really working. I would guess if you broke down crying and begging for him to stay when he says he looked at the apartment he would just go. You are forcing him to make his own decision rather than letting him blame whatever decision gets made on you, and that is hard for him (but I would argue very important). So keep it up and if you do any of the suggestions above like suggesting he slow his roll, I would just be sure that they're framed in a non-pursuit way, like the next time he starts an R talk with you, you listen, validate, and then say hey. there isn't a rush here. why don't you (whatever) so you can get some space to figure this out for yourself.

Finally, I was wondering again about what your instinct is on what is going on with the EAP, or if it really matters to you at the moment. I don't think it would necessarily change what you do, but I think it probably isn't a bad idea to get OK with the fact that she might still be in the picture so you aren't blindsided if in fact it turns out to be the case.

((HUGS))

[Pommy99]

. The decision to move out is a big one and telling the kids is (in my mind) this enormous watershed moment that will cause all these inevitable things to start to happen. .

I know telling the kids will be a defining moment and is the hardest part for him. The guilt is consuming him and he has been unable to have the conversation. I am not in any way pushing this part as I know that things are likely to snowball once he has told them..

Could he take a weekend alone somewhere just himself to take a break from all of the drama and sit with his own mind? If he does decide to take the apartment, does it have to be "I'm leaving because I no longer want to bang your mom forever" or could it be "I'm having a rough time, I know you guys have seen that, I need to take some time and space to figure things out" without needing to announce quite yet that this is it, kids, we're splitting up!!"?

he has 3 days every week to reflect on this. He tells me that he feels calm when he is away, because he doesn’t have to deal with the stress and anxiety of what he is doing. He does admit, however, that in some ways he is just burying his head in the sand and using the time to block out the problem. But conversely, he also tells me that he looks forward to coming home, because it’s calm at home, that I’m calming.

In terms of the message, he tends to talk in absolutes - that it’s over between your mum and I because xxxx. But again, in the last few days he has made reference to couples who get back together after separating, he has talked about needing to take step back to work ou what he wants, that he is too close to the problem and that leaving is the only way to get out of this washing machine cycle.

I do think your detachment and resisting any pursuit behaviors are probably really working. I would guess if you broke down crying and begging for him to stay when he says he looked at the apartment he would just go. You are forcing him to make his own decision rather than letting him blame whatever decision gets made on you, and that is hard for him .

I broke all the rules on Fri night. I went to him at 2am. I had been unable to suppress my anger, I had flung pillows and cushions around my room, It wasn’t enough, I couldn’t get the feelings to go away. I was angry at myself, for building my hopes up and misinterpreting his messages. He had told me he wanted to feel like we had a future together. I thought this was a positive, but it turns out that he meant that he wished he felt different so that he didn’t need to leave, that he could feel happy in the relationship and see a future for us. But he doesn’t feel that. So I went to him and told him I didn’t want things to be this way. We talked, I did a poor job of validating, I told him that his missing jigsaw piece was not a valid reason to end a marriage. He said he keeps trying to focus on us, that he can smooth things over for a week or so, but that the feelings he is trying to suppress keep bubbling and pushing through the surface.

The next morning I went to his room, and he lifted the covers so I could get into bed. He held me very close and told me the comments about the jigsaw were playing on his mind. We spent a long time looking into each other’s eyes. There was a weird connection, something I haven’t seen or felt for a while. He said it felt intimate lying there with me like that, it made him question what he was doing. I was glad. I was glad that I’d gone to him, that we’d had an opportunity to connect, I’m glad he felt it and admitted it.

The rest of the day was hard. We had a family day out and I spent a lot of time suppressing feelings, to stop the tears rolling down my cheeks. But he noticed, he knew. He held my hand all day. Whenever the kids were distracted we talked some more about leaving and the emotions he is feeling. It’s like he needs me to endorse him going. He does feel strongly about going but the guilt and fear are holding him back. I feel like he wants me to endorse this, to help him be at peace with his decision. But I can’t do it, I just cannot say that it is the right thing to do.

Finally, I was wondering again about what your instinct is on what is going on with the EAP, or if it really matters to you at the moment..
((HUGS))

At the moment I don’t think she is an influence. She has contacted him, which irked me, as it smacks of her trying to grab his attention. Although they had a half-hearted NC, and I do believe they hadn’t been communicating directly with each other, they were both in a group chat. I had questioned the point of NC if she was going to always be in his peripheral vision. She messaged him to tell him she was leaving the group chat, as she knew he was supposed to be NC with her. This really annoyed me....she didn’t need to announce her departure, but she obviously needed his attention, and to play this game of walking away. I asked how he had felt about it and he said a little sad that he had lost her friendship. But in all honesty, I don’t think right now she is a priority. I could be wrong of course.

[may22]

Hi Pommy,

I feel like there are (still) so so many similarities in our sitches. Doesn't sound like the EAP is much of an issue given what you know. But it still could be that his fantasy of another R maybe originally stoked by her but no longer fulfilled by her is hanging out there, and of course real life will simply never measure up to the fantasy.

As you know my H also felt so strongly about me endorsing him going which I simply could not do, plus telling/hurting the kids of course was also a huge obstacle he couldn't see his way around. And I've also broken all the rules and not only gone to him at 2 am but slept with him... and I'm still glad I did too. So I'm happy you're glad and were able to have that connection with him. I think it is important. For me, at certain points I've felt it was important that he know how I feel even if it wasn't DBing, because I needed to feel like I was being authentic and didn't want to have any regrets.

Can you keep this up? How many days before he goes again?

xx

[Pommy99]

I think you are spot on with the desire for a new R but not necessarily with her. He absolutely doesn’t see himself being physically intimate with me ever again. He said this as recently as yesterday (but before the eye lock moment and I was really hoping he was feeling something in his underpants at that point, but that’s just wishful thinking!!)

He goes away on Tues, but ahead of that I think he has to make a decision whether to actually sign the rental contract. He could then move from 4th March. I think I’m his head he is going but obviously will need to tell the kids. I will be very upset if he chooses to tell them today or tomorrow as they are back at school on Monday and won’t see him after bedtime Monday night until fri before school. I’ve told him they will need some time to process this and just before they go back to school and him going away is not a good time. But I guess he could always sign it and then he leaves himself no choice but to tell them. He is keen on not letting this rental go as it is furnished- most aren’t. I was disappointed he has found a furnished rental because it makes it easy for him to go. He only has to take his car and personal belongings. The upheaval of having to buy furniture would have slowed him down a lot more. So much is telling me that this needs to happen, but I am still 100% unable to help him reach a decision and give any support to him leaving

[Pommy99]

Very quick update as he has come to me this morning to see how I am. I said I had found it hard to fall asleep - that things were starting to snowball and it all felt out of control. He agreed that things are moving too fast. He explained that part of the reason he started this process was because he felt like I was pushing him to leave and him staying was hurting me. But being this close to the reality of signing a contract is bringing home what he is losing and the upset it will cause. (as in your sitch May, this has nothing to do with loving me, although he did reference the nice things we could do together in future). So I’m relieved as I don’t believe he is ready to make a decision. However, I am under no illusion that his thoughts could change again by tea time!

[Pommy99]

So update from the rest of the weekend.

H went to visit a old friend in Sat pm - divorced with children. I was concerned that this is yet another person he has confided in - I think that’s 8 or 9 now. I read a comment on OG’s thread from Steve85 that the less people they tell, the less likely they are to go through with their exit. As expected , old friend gave him advice that supported his inclination to leave. On Sun morning he met up with another divorced friend who is pro marriage. On his return home we had a really long talk and H has now proposed trial separation. He knows my thoughts on trial separation: that it is just to soften the blow for the LBS, or serve as a Plan B for the WAS. H say he is so full of doubts he doesn’t want to call time on our M but knows that nothing will change unless something breaks the cycle of constant confusion about whether to stay or go. I will only consider a trial separation if we have some objectives and ground rules in place. I am interested in the first instance what his stance is on dating and sex, because I feel if he is open to dating and sleeping with other people then he isn’t looking at if he can save a marriage. And even if he does suggest no sex/dating then I only have his word that he’s not breaking these rules ,

What are other people’s views on trial separations? And as LBS, what do I need to do?

I’ve anti-DBed this weekend , telling H several times that I don’t want him to leave (but that I understand why he feels the need). Last night I said that he could sleep in the MBR as he was leaving anyway and it wouldn’t make any difference now where he slept. He declined and chose the uncomfortable option. I was hurt but I knew that the only reason I wanted him to stay in the MBR was for my own comfort as I’m doing such a cr@p job at detaching from him.

Today he came and lay on the bed. In his undies. We talked, we hugged , we kissed (not passionately) and then I told him I missed being close to him and missed him holding me and I really wanted some intimacy with him. He declined , ugh. Rejection. Again.

Today we were both working at home. He cried. I haven’t seen him cry since 2010. He cried because of what he is putting me through, how he is hurting me, how strong I have been, how much I have put up with for so long. I wasn’t sure what to make of it tbh. He says he’s not going to sign the rental contract until the last second...probably the weekend. I’m not sure why he’s delaying, but assume it’s a good thing?

[may22]

Oh Pommy, this is all so very, very difficult. And to have to work from home with him must be unbearable. Can you go to a coffee shop or something?

On the crying... I do think it is a good sign that he is a human being inside and can at least at some levels understand the consequences of his behavior to those he loves-- you, the kids, etc. I know it doesn't necessarily mean he wants you, or is choosing to stay, but IMO it is better than someone hell-bent on leaving and the door can't hit him fast enough on the way out. He is confused and sad. I get it-- I would be too, if I ever found myself in that position for whatever reason.

Here are my thoughts-- no matter what decision he makes, trial separation, real separation, stay-- it has GOT to be his decision. He can't outsource it to you or feel like you're forcing him into anything. Can you lock it up for the next week and give him the space he needs to make this decision? Meaning, probably not inviting him into the MBR tonight (I'm right that he leaves tomorrow?) and then just being as dark as possible on the phone this week-- nice and friendly when he reaches out but not initiating anything yourself-- all the rules Steve has laid out in any number of our threads?

At the same time, really spending the time you need both on yourself and your own mental health but thinking through how you would be comfortable with a separation or a trial separation, ground rules, etc. I wouldn't share them with him right now-- this is for you, so that if he ends up pulling the trigger on the rental you'll be prepared to say OK. If this is what you want, this is how it will need to be from my perspective.

The delay in signing the lease till the last minute-- gift of time. Don't try to analyze what it means, but be grateful it is there.

And I would try to not think from a framework of if you do XYZ he is more or less likely to choose to stay... take yourself out of the equation. Sure, you could drive him out the door, and I'm sure you could figure out how to push him to choose to go. But on the other hand, remember-- you control you. You can't control his choices, only your own reactions to them. This is a mantra I repeat over and over and did/does really help me with detaching.

[oceangrl]

Oh Pommy. I hate this kind of pain. You are basically a yoyo on a roller coaster. Too many ups and downs. I hope you can re-center yourself. This is just the worst though. My husband is planning on exiting also and it is also painful.

For me, the constant rejection hurt so much. And then after a while, I got tired of it. I got tired of my feelings depending on whether he wanted me or not. I just let it start bouncing off me. I still hurt. I'm still sad. But I keep putting his problems back on him.

What can we do to support you?