Phew, big drama yesterday. Every time I feel like I'm having a nice smooth time and in a solid place life throws plates at me. Yesterday I had a lovely day out with friends. In the afternoon H rang, very agitated. His work politics have exploded and he has been accused (amongst other stuff) of having an A with a colleague. The colleague who I would have most expected him to have an A with, since I know he's always liked her and she got a D a couple of years ago and my spidey senses tingled then. H has been threatened with public exposure and he is fighting back legally saying it's not true. I listened and was in shock. I asked if he wanted to meet and he said no but he would today, and asked me to ring him when I got home. Also said he still wanted a D in future, ha funny how he expects me to support him after saying that.
I settled down a bit, then thought actually now would be the best time to get to the truth. So I went to his house (his secret house where I have never been allowed). It was quite comical really, my phone had died so I kept having to ask people for directions and also couldn't remember the name of the road until I saw it on a map. I think I was still in shock but not feeling too crazy, just a bit wobbly. I knocked on the door and he said he didn't want me coming in and we should go for a walk. I insisted on coming in and walking round the place. No obvious evidence of an A on the surface. His house is not very nice, mine is much nicer. I asked him outright about the A and he denied it. Well believe none of what they say, right? I asked him to prove it and he said how and I said by showing me his secret phone. He refused so I said in that case I had to assume he was having this A.
We went for a walk and I was mostly calm and tried as hard as I could to validate. Talk about extreme practice! It was all the same old stuff, I abandoned him during our M, he felt abandoned and he misses the kids so much. At no stage did he take responsibility for any of his side, what a victim. He did say that he felt very worried about his health, I asked him if he thought it might be stress-related. He has had a ridiculous amount of stress to deal with, and avoiding it with alcohol and over-work is not the best approach. He said a lot of other stuff but mostly it was the same old same old. What I took from it was that he is still stuck in victim mode. I feel sorry for him, it's a powerless place to be. I told him that if he was having an A then it almost didn't bother me, since I have been assuming an A all along (and he is no prize, this workaholic alcoholic with physical and mental health issues, who would want that?). Lol. I said that the lying would be the worst part of it because I had always thought him to be such a truthful and honourable person. Anyway, we talked quite calmly after a rocky start. He complained endlessly about his life and job and that the reason he worked so hard was to provide for his family, and that he intended to see me financially secure before we D and that this situation jeopardized this. Which is true. I said that it was very hard to watch him destroying himself and to not be able to do anything. We talked about me a tiny bit. I said that I am happy, that I'm not pining away for him but carrying on with my life, looking after my health and doing things which bring me joy (he has always been jealous of my GAL, since I have always looked after my needs as much as I can). I also told him about the smoking hot bloke chatting me up, it doesn't hurt to show I have options and some of them are more attractive than him
Then we went back to his house and I asked if I could drive his car home as I was so tired. He said no but offered to drive me but I said no because it would be dangerous when he was so stressed and exhausted. He said he would walk me to the station and I got triggered and felt like I had to escape and walked out. He ran after me and insisted on walking me back. It's a long walk, he has a horrible commute to work, more evidence of him mistreating himself when he could afford to live much closer. When we got to the station I asked if he wanted to see me today and he said yes please. Then I asked him for a proper hug and stroked his face. He asked me to let him know I got home safely. I said that he hadn't asked me that for a year and that I had been going home alone for a long time with nobody caring. I texted when I was on my final train and said I was sorry that things were such a mess. Then I rang a friend to unload a little bit. Remarkably few tears yesterday considering the ridiculous drama. I have come a long way in both detaching and not reacting.
So, who knows what will happen next? I'm carrying on with my life and just being there for H. Maybe I should let him sink, but I do love him even if I'm not so affected by his drama now, and my future is tied to his job stuff. I have done a lot of introspection and healing and I will be ok no matter what. If he needs me, then I'll support him. I feel like he's such a lost little boy underneath all the D bluster. Maybe I did abandon him during our M, I can see ways I did, and ways I enabled his poor treatment of me. I would not have him back without him taking responsibility for his part in the M, that is for sure. I might not have him back anyway (I might not get the chance). When they call this a marathon, they are not wrong. I think eventually it might be me who asks for D when I've just had enough, he seems resolutely stuck in this mess of his own creation. I can see how he wants to move on, but you can't until you do the hard work on yourself. In a text to me he said he was broken. I think he has been broken a long time, yet won't fix himself. I certainly can't fix him. I wonder what the next instalment of this soap opera will be? I seem to be seeing the funny side, I'm glad for that
He probably was having an affair at some point - or still is. But given that you're separated, it's probably not or no longer really an affair - it could be he's got another primary relationship of some kind and is keeping you on the hook because he likes having someone who will listen to his self pity and it makes more financial sense for him?. It's very possible he phoned to tell you before you found out from someone else. The fact he wants comforting from a wife he's planning to divorce because his image at work is tarnished regarding a relationship he's had or hasn't had with someone else is totally delusional behaviour and so much more disrespectful than belching in front of you. He seems utterly mad. He wants to D in the future, isn't going to do it now as he wants you to be financially secure before he does, but also threatens you with D (which apparently is only a matter of time away anyway...) if you move away from him and act in line with the reality, which is that you live apart, you're separated for quite some time now, and he's probably had a relationship or is having a relationship with someone else.
But I guess none of this is about him, but about you. About why you might collude with his delusional, disrespectful and basically bonkers behaviour and what you might be getting out of it.
Is it in your best interests to delay divorce until you're on financially better footing? If it is, and you're willing to listen to his whining and let him use you for occasional emotional support until you do feel the time is financially right, then at least you can know you're acting in your own best interests. You say your future is tied to his job but also that he'd support his children and be financially responsible to them in the future. Are you in a gilded cage? SAHM's divorce, people who work minimum wages jobs and rent small houses divorce. Your financial future might not be what you imagined, and perhaps not as lucrative as if you continued a marriage to a high earner - and if that is what makes it worth it for you - well being clear with yourself about that might help you to tolerate what you need to do to have that more easily?
If the money side of things doesn't matter (it doesn't sound - especially if you have two houses and he has his own flat, that any divorce arrangement would result on either of you being on the breadline) then perhaps he's kidding himself about the real reasons for him delaying divorce. Perhaps you playing along with the pretence that he's keeping you in his life for your own benefit is not in your best interests and a dose of reality to him - which would involve you acting as if your relationship has ended, that his phones or social life or emotional needs are his own business and nothing to do with you - would be much better for you.
Or perhaps something else is going on here. There seems to be an awful lot of denial going on.
You are carrying on with your life - but things with your H are exactly the same as they have been for a long time. That won't change unless it no longer suits him (and he seems to be enjoying it cake) or unless it no longer suits you. Perhaps figuring out what you're getting out of it would help you in making a change in your own best interests.
Fundamentally, I don't believe he wants D. He even said yesterday that he loved me (which is the first time in a long time, even if it was in a ILYBINILWY sort of way). However, having seen sitches on here, I am prepared for him to do it anyway. He has not told anyone other than his 2 closest friends about the separation, his family know something is going on but I'm pretty sure he has not told anyone except me and maybe his 2 friends that he wants D. He's only said that to me about 3 times, usually as a threat when he feels like he needs to assert control or when he has worked himself into a frenzy about things.
What am I getting out of the sitch continuing? A. I don't want D, I would prefer reconciliation if possible, but H is in no condition for that any time soon. B. Financially it would be stupid for me to D any time soon (and stupid for H not to D, frankly, more irrational behaviour) C. It would be terrible timing to start D when ds1 has big exams and uni to prepare for and D. Limbo is no fun, but I've adjusted to it. Limbo has in a weird way let me heal. I feel stronger than at any moment since BD, even with the odd wobbly day (usually unrelated to H, funnily enough).
I agree his behaviour is mad, but it has been ever since BD. He has said the most irrational things, so that I no longer believe half of what he says because it is so plain crazy. Part of me has compassion for him because I can see how extraordinary the effect of his mum's behaviour has been on his life. I can see the pain of his abandonment was extreme. The feelings of abandonment I felt when he first left ironically gave me empathy for something which has affected his life and relationships so deeply. I don't feel that abandonment any more though, whereas he will have it forever unless he addresses it and heals from it. I'm not sure he's capable of that, in which case D is inevitable whichever of us initiates it.
When I say I can see the humour in it, I find it both tragic and comic. I'm not getting sucked into the crazy, I've had enough drama. If I find someone else, I will initiate D. I'm open to that, though not actively looking yet. In this moment, I am happy enough in my life with my kids and my friends and my GAL and looking forward to the future whether it involves H or not. I'm at peace with either outcome, though I would prefer reconciliation. But that's not up to me. Having seen how hard piecing is I'm not even sure it's possible with H. It's certainly not possible with him in the middle of this stuff he's going through. I know a lot of it is nothing to do with me, just as always in these sitches. I feel secure right now in myself though, when I look back even a few months I have come a long way emotionally. Yesterday with my friends the subject of H never even came up, despite these being close friends who know the whole story. It just didn't feel relevant, he didn't feel relevant to my life.
I know what you mean about it being both tragic and funny. And I admire your ability to be around your H when he is behaving so irrationally and unpleasantly and still feel and enact some compassion for him - I can't do that. I avoid my H like the plague when he's being difficult, which is no help for piecing.
As you're open to a reconciliation but prepared for divorce, perhaps what might help in this time is working on boundaries? Figuring out how you'd want to be in a marriage, and starting bringing that into your interactions. I'm not talking about increasing intimacy or closeness - your H can't do it and doesn't deserve it from you - but perhaps boundaries? I don't think if you were together you'd accept half of what you accept now and call it a healthy relationship.
It is a hard line to draw though. I am talking to myself as much as you, I think. I often think I moved too quickly with H and didn't emphasise - through solid boundaries and consistent behaviour - the kind of behaviour I would and wouldn't tolerate - for long enough - before we moved to R. He still pulls the odd move that it just so unacceptable to me. But I did accept it while we lived apart and he had no experience of having to deal with me refusing to tolerate it for long enough before he moved back in.
Perhaps you need to see what happens - if only for yourself - if you live your boundaries and refuse to act as an emotional crutch for someone who is being so unreasonable. You don't want to be in a marriage like that.
Edited to add: it's your comment 'let him sink' that made me think about all of this. I think he needs to sink. Hit rock bottom and then build himself back up. You don't want a marriage to man who you have to prop up. He's let you sink and you've - despite all the pain and abandonment and anger and uncertainty - flourished and you still are flourishing. Perhaps you are robbing him of that opportunity. You both need to be healthy and independent humans to be able to have a good marriage. If you are leaning in to stop him sinking - if he's expecting or needing that from you - then that fundamental shift that needs to take place isn't going to happen. And if he doesn't come back - if he drinks himself into getting sacked or a heart attack - well that will be sad and it won't be your fault, but in terms of the marriage you want - you won't be any further away from it than you are now.
You are so right Alison, and I am mindful of the whole 'didn't break him can't fix him' thing. H has not been too critical lately, just very, very moany which is more about his life than me. He left to find 'happiness' and he seems more miserable than he's ever been. Oh well. Not my problem, even if he thinks it is. My IC said several times that H's behaviour is the equivalent of self harm and I see a lot of that. Saying that, he might have been listening to me a tiny bit as he has said he is going to take a month off in April once some work stuff is resolved. Well, he said that initially and then last time I saw him it had changed to 2 or 3 weeks. Betting it will end up a week or 10 days, nowhere near long enough to recover. He has made tiny progress though, I dropped the word 'burnout' into conversation and he's inching towards seeing that his health problems might be more stress related than purely physical (not that those aren't completely inseparable). He also said he's not going to compete for the top job, I think the threats spooked him, and I think he's finally realising that this level of work stress is doing harm to his health. He looked even more overweight when I saw him last weekend, probably too much drinking and definitely not enough exercise, his build is naturally slim so whilst he is probably not overweight his belly says otherwise and contributes to his health problems. I said I supported his decision to step back and that health was the most important thing, and that no job was worth dying for. His health has worsened again since this latest drama. He seems deeply depressed, I can't comprehend how he manages to work 70 hours a week in this state but that's his choice.
This week is school holidays, all my friends are away and my usual routine has been disrupted. I've realised how much this affects how I feel, not getting that basic social contact and having structure. I've been working on my art, but I have to go seek out company, and also accountability for my work projects, it's hard having to motivate myself towards something difficult but worthwhile when it's all on me to make it happen. My teens are spending half the day asleep and the younger one is grumpy from not doing anything. Dragging them out is tough! Next week is very busy and also very social, so maybe I just need to focus on working towards my goals right now and exercise myself out of this week's funk. I feel lonely this week, but I can see that's nothing to do with H really, and that I have to take care of myself even though it's hard. There is no point me blaming him for my stuff, just because he does that to me This weekend I don't have to take ds2 to his activity nor ds1 to work, so I'm going away for the weekend. H can moan about work to himself, I'm not going to be his one hour unloading slot.
I think what your IC says about self harm and your H is spot on, from how you describe him. At least he cant' blame all his self inflicted misery on you any longer. It sounds very much to me like living with an addict - that sense he has to hit his own rock bottom before the pain of what he is doing outweighs his fear of looking at himself and taking responsibility for it. I don't often feel sorry for your H, but I do today.
I hope you had a lovely week all the same. Did you have a nice weekend away? What did you get up to?
Half term was ok thanks, just very quiet and didn't do much. At the weekend I went to my other house and that was quiet too (weather was appalling!), just reading and a few trips to the pub and a walk. This week is busy so some chilling out was probably good. I didn't tell H where I was off to and he temp checked me via text about 4 times and asked me on Sunday when I was back and I said 'evening' when I knew he'd be gone. Nice to not see him actually, if he wants to see me he'll have to arrange it in advance instead of assuming I'll be waiting round pathetically for him to grace me with his mighty presence. I might be out next Sunday too The last time I saw him I met him near his office and we did our fun activity, that was better than just going for boring walks and him moaning endlessly at me about his life (but then still blaming me and not taking responsibility for anything and not dragging himself out of this funk). If I keep away from him long enough he might finally connect the dots that I am not the one making his life miserable If I see him I think it'll be doing fun stuff, otherwise I just get associated with that moaning mentality! I'm determined to be fun, light-hearted and good company via text or in person, but not to reach out to him, he has to make the moves. Interesting that he temp checked so many times...If he does moan about my role in his unhappiness then I am going to point out that we each need to take 50% responsibility and ask what his 50% was, then shut him down if he keeps dwelling on my many faults (of which I do have many, but you don't stay with someone for 30 years if they're THAT bad!) I've had enough of validating his complaints about me now, enough is enough.
This week I have so many fun social things lined up, and also have to do some work on my projects. I was offered a few hours of freelance work so looking forward to that, maybe it might lead to more? Who knows, I will make it obvious I'm looking. I also have some travel to plan with ds2 at Easter (no more sitting round in the school holidays! It was far too a-motivating!) and my BIG trip in June, partly with ds1. So lots of exciting stuff going on in my life. I need to keep on hustling for work stuff in the midst of this and also still having to chase builders for the many loose ends which need doing in both houses. I joined a bunch of interesting new groups so will go to some events as well, somehow life seems mostly busy since I have to take the kids to their activities 2 evenings and one morning a week (those are sacrosanct as they are the main times they talk!), a couple of art classes a week and 3 or 4 exercise classes plus yoga. I'm turning into one of those annoying people who retire and complain about being too busy It would still be really nice to have someone to share my life and a bed with though, my thoughts do turn to the idea of dating now. I feel a lot of acceptance for limbo and H being unable to do ANYTHING right now, but I won't be patient forever. I'm just letting him get on with his miserable life while I enjoy my happy one
It is so good to hear you busy and happy Dilly. You deserve it!!
Originally Posted by dillydaf
If I keep away from him long enough he might finally connect the dots that I am not the one making his life miserable If I see him I think it'll be doing fun stuff, otherwise I just get associated with that moaning mentality! I'm determined to be fun, light-hearted and good company via text or in person, but not to reach out to him, he has to make the moves. Interesting that he temp checked so many times...If he does moan about my role in his unhappiness then I am going to point out that we each need to take 50% responsibility and ask what his 50% was, then shut him down if he keeps dwelling on my many faults (of which I do have many, but you don't stay with someone for 30 years if they're THAT bad!) I've had enough of validating his complaints about me now, enough is enough.
This sounds very wise.
I know we're in different places, but I've started to deal with my Moaning Myrtle H like this too. I will validate to an extent, providing he's actually speaking about his feelings and not just spewing blame or being critical. I had to think a lot about this - I know validation is DB 101 but I think I met so much verbal abuse with validation early on in my situation that he kind of got addicted to it and it just made him worse. Now I validate actual emotions (I listen out for 'feelings' words) and have a really hard boundary around blame and criticism. I don't criticise him: if I want something I ask for it specifically and accept his answer. He can learn to do the same. As soon as he starts with the blame, I say 'so what's your action plan?' or make an excuse and go and do something else. I kind of don't care whether he blames me or not, whether he carries on blaming me and sitting in self pity, or whether he does something to improve his life. I hope he does for his own sake, and because if he's happier I think our marriage has more potential to improve. But he doesn't have to be here if he doesn't want to be, he can ask for changes if he wants them, and he can use his IC as a punch bag if he needs that in his life. It's kind of refreshing.
And it is interesting about your H temp-checking. He probably needs punch-bag-nurse-maid more than he's willing to admit...
yes well, he doesn't have an IC, maybe next time he complains I'll suggest that he gets one! I like the 'so what's your action plan?' comeback, not so easy when it's about past stuff though maybe. I usually just say 'I wish I could change the past, but I can't' and sometimes that works, he's even said a few times 'you can't unwind the past'. No sh*t sherlock. I also think that too much validating of negative behaviour encourages negative behaviour, hence my decision to step back. Not to mention, I JUST DON'T ENJOY SPENDING TIME WITH SOMEONE WHO IS BORING AND MISERABLE!! Listening and validating are important R skills that I was late to learn, but yes I agree, not validating everything is sensible and might even make your spouse feel like 'well I've unloaded that particular grievance, I don't have to actually do anything about it now I feel a bit better'. Like making a new year's resolution to go on a diet and then feeling so good about it you reward yourself with a biscuit.
All this is so much easier now I've detached a bit more. I'm still a work in progress though, thinking like I'm training a pigeon here. Reward the good, ignore the bad. I once (20 years ago) read a book about how to train your husband like a dog. I tried some of the techniques in there and they really did work! Maybe I should reread that book...
I think about validation with my children too. I have to be careful that I am not only giving them validation and empathy when they are sharing negative things with me in case they start to think that's the only possible way of getting my attention. I try to pour on attention and engagement when they are sharing the good news and things that they feel positive about just as much.
I know I could do that more with my H. Be more attentive and interested in his happy moments (rare though they are!)/ He has actually said as much to me too - he says he doesn't see what I love or care about or what makes me happy any more, and while he's much much better at validating me than he ever was, I am sure he could say I was a Moaning Myrtle too. It's a very easy trap to fall into, especially when you have actual things to moan about...
The gratitude has helped. I try to thank him for two or three things every day and share two or three pieces of good news or happy things with him and the children every day. It's like pulling teeth with them sometimes though...!
