Doing nothing is still hard work. I think I am succeeding most of the time, but it takes a conscious effort.
Having said that, I am acknowledging my wife when I see her and I wonder if I should be doing that or not. When my W dropped the kids off to me yesterday, she came into the house, didn't really say hello until I said hello, dropped off their school things etc, gave them hugs then walked out of the door without saying goodbye or anything to me. I said goodbye, and she sort of turned and said goodbye back then got in the car and left (I didn't follow her out the door or anything like that).
To me the 'hello' and 'goodbye' are common courtesies that everyone uses. We were on reasonable (good, even) speaking terms up until late October but now it feels like she is really shutting me out. Yes, it hurts to be ignored but it also feels rude, especially when she purposely excludes me from any group greeting (warm welcome to S15, D13, the dog, then not even a look in my direction, like I'm not there).
What is the right way to view/handle this? Is it reasonable for me to expect a hint of civility? I guess the real path is for me to totally drop it and work on not letting it worry me. I can't make her change her behaviour (and don't want to *make* her do anything). Saying hello etc I guess is pursuing (seeking a response), forces her to do something she doesn't want to do, and doesn't recognise her withdrawal as a sign she wants zero contact.
I also wonder what this behaviour means. Trying to write me out of the picture/speed up forgetting me by just not seeing me? Or my presence causes her too much pain?
How did you feel when you said goodbye, and got a brush off goodbye?
If it set you back in terms of detachment.....then stop doing it. If you can hello and goodbye to her with no expectations, and without being hurt or upset when she doesn't reciprocate, then by all means keep extending that "common courtesy" to her.
Personally, I've never been a fan of pushing myself on anyone that doesn't want anything to do with me, no matter who it is. There are people in my life I completely ignore because when I say hi, or have a nice day on departing from them, they act like I am burdening them. So to those people I do not waste the time or energy to extend common courtesy.
As far as what the behavior means.....it doesn't mean anything. And it is a fool's game to try to get into the mind of the WAS. Likely she doesn't even know what it means, how could you or we?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Having said that, I am acknowledging my wife when I see her and I wonder if I should be doing that or not.
I see no reason why you can't say, "Hi", "Hey", "Hello", whatever is your norm. Since she is ignoring you, I wouldn't hunt her down in order to say good-bye. Your kids are not toddlers, so I see no need to go searching for her. If she is nearby, then you can say it or throw up your hand to signal you are going. If she comes to your house to pick them up, then have your teenagers ready to go the second she pulls into the driveway. No need for you to walk them to the car, or even stand in the doorway as they are driving off. There is no reason either of you need to go inside the house to pickup/deliver the teenagers.
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Yes, it hurts to be ignored but it also feels rude, especially when she purposely excludes me from any group greeting (warm welcome to S15, D13, the dog, then not even a look in my direction, like I'm not there).
Of course it feels rude and it hurts to be treated this way. Her actions remind me of younger, or immature, women. Sometimes this type of behavior could be due to her own sense of guilt......or feeling uncomfortable. However, I tend to believe she is "performing", and she does it to take a dig at you. She knows the little ways to really twist the knife, and this is one of those ways. Just try to see it as immaturity on her part, and move on. The minute you truly detach, these games she plays will not affect you so much. Currently, all your emotions are raw and everything she does bothers you.
Are there any other type of group settings where you aren't sure what to do?
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Saying hello etc I guess is pursuing (seeking a response), forces her to do something she doesn't want to do, and doesn't recognise her withdrawal as a sign she wants zero contact.
IMHO, saying hello is not pursuing......if you don't have to chase her down to speak. It's up to her if she wants to respond in a civil manner, or act like a child. Trying to have small talk after saying hello, might be seen as pursuit......it just depends on the scenario. If she is obviously trying to ignore you, then don't have small talk.
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I also wonder what this behaviour means. Trying to write me out of the picture/speed up forgetting me by just not seeing me? Or my presence causes her too much pain?
I hope I've answered your questions.
You are experiencing the same disturbing bad manners, as most newcomers in a left-behind sitch. I have to tell you a little secret about her appearing to leave you out of her warm greetings. She isn't doing this act to speed up forgetting about you, or doing it b/c your presence is too painful for her. Deliberately ignoring someone takes a certain amount of focus and energy to carry it off. It's completely different than accidentally overlooking someone. This behavior she's showing you is intentional, and it requires her focus. So, whenever you see her attempts to obviously ignore you, just smile to yourself and remember that you secretly have her attention/thoughts. That's how it works.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Deliberately ignoring someone takes a certain amount of focus and energy to carry it off. It's completely different than accidentally overlooking someone. This behavior she's showing you is intentional, and it requires her focus. So, whenever you see her attempts to obviously ignore you, just smile to yourself and remember that you secretly have her attention/thoughts. That's how it works.
Thanks sandi, that's very encouraging, which is just what I needed right now. Things are so disheartening. Thank you so much.
Thanks sandi, that's very encouraging, which is just what I needed right now. Things are so disheartening. Thank you so much.
Your words warm my heart. Whenever you have time (driving, sitting in a waiting room, can't go to sleep, etc) listen to motivational talks on You Tube. I don't mean on the subject of marriage, but rather on topics that feeds you as an individual man. Listen to what gives you hope and determination to embrace tomorrow. Don't make everything about your W, b/c you are more than just a LBH. You need to be very good to yourself, and work to rediscover the man apart from the MR.
For some, I think the LBH has to have a period where he intentionally avoids things that stir negative emotions, like listening to sad music, watching sad movies, reading nothing but negative subject matter. You know that old tech lingo......garbage in--garbage out? If we have access to a wealth of inspiration, knowledge, and healing, and we don't purposely feed on it......then how can we withstand depression, the sense of hopelessness, and other negativity that is trying to devour us? You must intentionally feed on that which makes you stronger, and equips you to handle the bad stuff that's trying to wear you down and make you give up on life. The advantage of having alone time, is that you can feast on the positive sources out there, as much as you want, whenever you want.
If you were Joe's life coach, what area would you suggest he tackle first? How is he doing physically? Is he on a good diet, sleeping well, and working out? If not, then garbage in--garbage applies. He needs to work on what he can control physically, before expecting great strides emotionally. Does he need to see a doctor? If so, then make an appointment, and be honest with the doc about the depression, insomnia, lack of appetite, or whatever. It is not a sign of weakness to go to your doctor.
Many LBH's on the board swear that working out at the gym was a life saver. They not only build their muscles, but work out that emotional stress that's trying to eat them alive. It is a huge plus to their self esteem.
Are you hanging out with good buddies? Don't isolate yourself, and don't be afraid to meet new people. If all your friends are linked to your W........then you might need to stay away from get-togethers where both of you would show up. Give yourself time to heal, before entering the lioness den again. I want to caution you about sharing anything with some of your married buddies. Don't think for a second that their W's won't pick them to find out what you've said. It's better to have one person who has no connection whatsoever with your W.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
JoeDredd sorry that you in this sitch! Your getting alot of good advice from true vets though. I am also fairly new to this but wife is WW not WAW. I always try to remember this from Cadets post: Your W is giving you a GIFT. THE GIFT OF TIME. USE it wisely.
Whenever I can see it that way and start feeling that I am in control ,things arent so bad anymore.
Not sure if you have focused on this but for me, when it comes to small talk, changing from me always starting convos to waiting for her has REALLY helped. Gives me a feeling of control and it means we will be focusing on her rather than me.
OH and focus on the kids! They will bring joy and they will need a strong happy parent in this process.
Last edited by Mumin; 03/05/2010:41 PM.
Me: 34 Stbxw: 30 D:5 D:3 Mini bd: May/June 2019 Married: Aug 2019 BD: 6th Dec 2019 OM Confirmed: Feb 2020 March 2020: I filed for D Waiting for D to be finalized and W to move out end of January 2021
for me, when it comes to small talk, changing from me always starting convos to waiting for her has REALLY helped. Gives me a feeling of control and it means we will be focusing on her rather than me.
Thanks Mumin, that's a good insight. I can see how that would work.
You must intentionally feed on that which makes you stronger, and equips you to handle the bad stuff that's trying to wear you down and make you give up on life. The advantage of having alone time, is that you can feast on the positive sources out there, as much as you want, whenever you want.
Thanks Sandi.
My W and I are both Christians so I've been reading a lot of Bible-based materials and praying. Both are hard though, as I find it hard to concentrate on reading anything and in my prayers I ask for the same things as I can't tell what's happening on the spiritual side. It's always easy to justify small 'signs' as answers to prayer, but equally easy to explain them away as something else.
My wife once said to me she would've hung in there if God had told her to, but He didn't. I think the Bible is pretty clear about separation and divorce but I guess it's human nature to think of ourselves as the exception. "If you really, really meant it to apply to me, you have to let me know, otherwise I'll know you didn't."
Sandi, as a Christian lady with perspective on the non-LBS's point of view, was there anything particular that made you turn back to your husband? Did you talk to God while you were going through everything? Did you hear from Him? If so, did it agree with what you wanted to do or did you have to explain it away?
I hope you don't mind me asking. I read back through some of your original posts, then tried to read AmyC's posts but I couldn't retrieve them.
Okay, slap me around and tell me again not to try and work out what W is doing.
I'm sure the pastor of our church must've had a talk with her, as she's now worn a ring on her wedding finger again for the last couple of Sundays. It's not her wedding ring, but it's been almost 28 years since we got married so her wedding ring might be too tight to go back on after she took it off about six weeks ago. The main thing is that it is an outward sign to the world of being married. I was pleased to see something like a step back in the direction of 'us'. If W had made up her mind that she was totally done, I think she would've kept it off. That said, the pastor had mentioned to me months ago that if W stepped too far down the line, she would be removed from the ministry team as they can't have anyone serving who is disobeying the Lord. (The pastor and his wife, and one very good long-term friend of ours, are the only people in our church who know about our situation.)
I saw W again that afternoon to swap over the kids. Her wedding finger was bare again. I've since seen W several times with a ring on, and without a ring. I think, surely she can't be putting it on just for church and weekly music rehearsals? (She sings on stage.) W has a big heart for God and surely knows He is not fooled by that?
The last time I saw W with a ring on, it looked like her eternity ring. I didn't say anything, but I was so happy. Moving from a ring that I hadn't given her, to one I had, seemed significant. But if the eternity ring fits, then the wedding ring should fit too.
Possibly she is just doing it to keep her place on the worship team, but I really think she is above that. Plus taking it off and putting requires thought, and possibly more actively reminds her of the two of us and our marriage than putting her wedding band back on and forgetting it's there.
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We had to go for a meeting at school on Friday morning to discuss S15 (nothing bad). W dropped the kids off at school then drove over to home (where I still live), and came inside to wait until it was time for the meeting. (Our house is close to the school and the school start time was half an hour before our meeting.) No ring on her finger. I asked her if we would go together or in separate cars. She said she didn't mind. I said "Great. What time shall we head up to school? 8.45?" and W said "Yes."
W likes to be on time so I made sure I was ready. The last job to do was put the dog out. I carried her water bowl outside. When I came back inside, I saw W had got in her car (leaving the front door open). I called the dog but instead of coming to me, she ran upstairs. I ran upstairs too, still calling the dog. The dog ran further away. I managed to grab the dog and quickly carried her downstairs. Out the open front door I could see my wife had driven off. I couldn't believe it! She didn't even say "I'm going now" or "See you there" or anything. I ran out the front door but couldn't see her car to flag down. I thought of ringing her but what would I say? "Why didn't you say you were going?"
I put the dog out, grabbed my keys, locked up and drove to the school. I parked next to my W's car. When I got out, she got out of her car too. Maybe she had been doing other stuff but it was like she was waiting for me so we could go in together, which made the driving off seem so unnecessary. Conscious of all those things like, "Do you want to be happy or right?" and "Does it move you closer to healing or to separation?", I didn't express any disatisfaction to her. I just said "I was surprised when you drove off without me, but I know how important it is for you to be on time." W said something about wanting to avoid the traffic.
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I went around today and mowed the lawn for her. W doesn't really talk to me and stays inside while I work. No ring on today. I'm going to stop looking. W gave me a fright at one point when she called to me out the garage door: "Where'd all this grass come from?" I didn't know she was there, and there was no "Hey Joe" or anything to get my attention as I concentrated on what I was doing. All her text messages and most of her conversations with me are like this - no greetings or farewell, no friendly talk about other things, just "here's the message". It almost seems like we are still in ongoing discussions together, with no distance or absense, so it's okay to 'carry on' in as sense.
When I left this evening she actually said goodbye to me, before I could say anything. I don't think she thanked me but she did say the lawn looked nice. I wondered if it was a bad thing that she said goodbye to me, rather than ignoring me or being cross with me. Is it okay to mow the lawn for my W?
Are there any other type of group settings where you aren't sure what to do?
We sit together in church as a family (only three people there know what is going on), but W does not like me sitting next to her. Last Sunday there was an almost farcical attempt to 'reserve' a chair with water bottle, phone, notes, a crossed leg etc to preserve that space and stop me moving beside her - not that I was going to, as she obviously doesn't want me to and I am making sure I don't pressure her in any way.
The week before she swapped seats with a friend to sit next to me (or so I thought), which made my heart leap for joy. (It was the same Sunday a ring appeared back on her wedding finger.) However as she swapped seats she practically growled at me "Can you move over?", which totally threw me. It turned out that a friend sitting with us had insisted W sit next to 'your husband', which W did with great reluctance. In fact, I would even say there is anger & resentment at sitting near me.
I know I need to detach. I don't understand how I can be so horrible a person that even sitting next to me is repulsive and painful.
But also there is this double scenario going on, one where she says 'I'm still undecided, I'm on the fence' and we present as a family, but at the same time she takes off her ring and doesn't sit next to me, which seem to go against that.
