I hear your hesitancy, and I think it's fine to start that way. But if this continues longer term you're going to have to also let your guard down and it won't be just talking about your H. I'm curious how this goes for you.
I think you've hit the nail on the head here. I am guarded: incredibly guarded. We're not in an IHS sort of situation: we're involved with each other, sleep in the same bed, there's some affection and some good harmonious teamwork in some practical aspects of our lives. But there's not much in the way of emotional connection. And I know that a good portion of that is because I won't let him anywhere near my heart. I have excellent reasons for that, but I guess I can either carry on as I am, and feel sad about being in a cold, pretty dead but practically functioning marriage, or I can make changes on my side of things. I don't really understand why my H wants to go to MC: I have asked him and he said 'to work on our problems' but other than a litany of complaint, which I can't really bear to listen to any more (I have a boundary around this for my own sanity) I don't have any idea about what positive changes he wants and what he wants our future marriage to look like.
Originally Posted by May22
Here's my question for you, Alison. Put yourself back in your own shoes when he came back, and your decision process that brought you to him moving back in and you guys deciding to work on your R.
I remember that time: we'd had some really good time together over the late summer. He'd started to open up, be more affectionate and respectful, and I saw leaps and bounds improvement in his relationship with Eldest. He was starting to take some responsibility, and while I didn't see much in the way of contrition or remorse, I did see a marked change in how he treated me day to day. I think I convinced myself - perhaps wrongly - that he was acting out his 180s rather than verbally telling me that he was sorry. We had one conversation where he said very clearly that he wanted to come back, and what he wanted things to be like - and that evening I said I liked what he said, and it gave me hope, but I didn't feel ready. And he was upset: pretty cold and withdrawn and sulky in the days afterwards (or perhaps he was just hurt) and that scared me - I thought laying out a boundary like that and telling him the truth had driven away, so I relented immediately and said he could come back - and he moved back out of his flat and into the house with all his stuff that week. We didn't even discuss it in any depth with the children. I think I knew better - even at the time I had a sense that I felt pressured and that there were things I wanted to address and hear from him before R that hadn't happened, but I was still so scared of his anger, and of losing him entirely, and that coloured my actions more than good sense and wisdom did.
Originally Posted by May22
What I want to know is: what would it take to forgive YOURSELF? Both for putting up with his behavior in the past, and for taking him back. The word you chose, "humiliated," has just really stuck with me. I know that feeling and the pit eating away in your stomach when you think about it. What would it take to let that feeling go? To say to past Alison-- you did the best you could with the tools you had at the time. You were scared to lose your H, the father of your children, (whatever other reasons...) but you did what you thought was best and that is all you can ask for. And what a gift that you've come so far, you aren't that person any more, you won't accept that kind of behavior ever again in any R... and you may have never been able to step into that space if not for the hard lessons you learned and are still learning through this whole process.
This is a really great question. It's made me cry a bit, reading it and thinking about it. But in a good way. You know, there are friends I have at work who knew that H moved out who don't know he has moved back yet - and he's been back nearly four months. I think I have a hard time forgiving myself both for what I tolerated and for letting him come back against my better judgement because I am so disappointed with our current marriage - it isn't what I expected or hoped for. I think I have changed a little, for the better, in some important ways - and there is and always will be more work to do. I can see the changes he's made - they are significant and it does mean our daily life is generally more peaceful. But there is a lot of distance between us because of my boundaries. I think they're healthy boundaries. I won't listen to him whine and blame and complain and whinge at me any more. I generally don't ask him for anything because - it's kind of weird it's so persistent - if I ask him for something, he seems to hear me criticising him and goes into full on defence mode. It's so boring and predictable and exhausting I just go my own way.
I'll give an example. Last night I asked if we could compare diaries to check some tricky logistical thing out with childcare that is cropping up this week. I literally just said, 'can we find five minutes to get our diaries out tonight so we can make sure someone is around for Youngest on Friday?' and he said 'it's not my fault - I haven't been the one stopping us talking about this,' in a really sulky teenage tone. I just left the room and went ahead and made my own arrangements, feeling pretty peeved and unsupported and a lot of contempt. It's like that almost constantly.
I guess if I could ask for something at MC I would say something like, 'I would like you to learn to ask me clearly for what you want, rather than just telling me all the time when something is not working for you. It would help me to understand what you need and what your ideal marriage would look like so we can work towards that. I would also like you to respond to any request from me with a clear yes or no - and no is fine - rather than the defensive responses that happen now. They're a barrier to communication and I would like to communicate better with you.'
What stops me is that I have said that, lots and lots of times, and because it is a request, it triggers defensiveness in him and I end up in some long discussion about his communication methods being my fault. And I have a boundary around listening to that.
Which I guess brings me back to self forgiveness. I do regret having him back in the house and moving to piecing before I was ready, and that's on me and not him. I do also need to forgive him - perhaps - for being truly incapable of giving me the type of marriage that I want. And I need to make decisions on that basis. Perhaps that's acceptance - I don't know.
There are some good things. I was out GAL last night. One of the things he's asked for is more evenings alone, so I've been out more or less every night this week (after I cook and do what's needed with the children, of course). I was imagining I'd be back around 10pm - it was just dinner with a friend - but I ended up not being back until 12.30 or so. No biggy. I don't drink, I was in my car and not wandering the streets at night, he knew where I was etc. He did call me at about 12 to ask if I was okay - he sounded genuinely worried - and that made me feel cared about as generally I feel pretty invisible to him and the thing he expresses he wants most is more time without me. That was very new and not something I have experienced from him in several years.
I am wondering how I could open up to him a bit more. And I am not sure anything I have to say to him about what is going on in my mind and heart would be positive for our relationship. If I was going to be really honest, I'd say, 'you totally broke my heart and I cried every day for months because you were so cruel. It felt like my life was disappearing and you'd been kidnapped by a stranger. I don't think I will ever every trust a person fully again - I don't know how I could ever feel truly safe with you again - after what has happened between us. I am so angry about how you project your own insecurities about being a low-achiever onto our children, in particular Eldest, and how your parenting is so harsh because you're acting out your issues rather than looking at yourself. I am weary and alone in our marriage because of your communication style, and I am so disappointed that what I hoped would happen when you came back has not happened. You hurt me more than I have ever been hurt in my life and I don't think you are ready to even contemplate that. The only way I can exist in the same house as you is to have emotional boundaries that mean you don't get anywhere near my heart, and the only thing I hear from you that is about what you want is more time alone, more separateness and more independence. That makes me wonder why you wanted to come back in the first place, and what is it about me that you desire. It is confusing.'
But if I spewed all that out at him, I can 100% guarantee it would have disastrous results. And I know my feelings, my hurt, my anger and resentment and my guardedness are my responsibility and my issue to deal with. It isn't fair to dump all that on his lap and expect him to repair it. It also isn't possible. So what I do to take care of myself is also incompatible with the marriage I'd like to have.
