Update - H emailed me Friday saying he had been in the hospital the night before. Turns out he has some long term condition that is more annoying than anything else, and he is fine, but wanted to keep me in the loop of it. I texted him during work about it, and then called when I left work. We chat for about 30 minutes, casually.
Saturday morningish I called him to check up and see how he was doing. We caught up for about an hour. Nothing relationship-y at all. I did manage to sneak in there that I am not angry anymore, but this is something I think he can tell. He did voice that he will be in town this upcoming weekend and wants to meet up at an event on Saturday, so that was nice. He had also told me about a movie he thought I'd like. Later that afternoon, he texted me about a show he thought I'd like, too - this is probably the first text he initiated that isn't about logistics or anything. The fact that he saw show, thought of me, and then acted on texted me seems like progress. Later that night I texted saying I did watch the movie and had a lot of thoughts about it. He then called me to discuss it, and we talked for another hour. It was the cute kind of talking - like when you have a crush on someone and want to keep talking even though it's late. I finally cut it off, and went to bed, but was excited about it. It's nice to reconnect like that, even though none of it was romantic. I was briefly worried about being friendzoned by my own H, but I think that's just fear. I made a comment about missing the dogs (which I normally do) and he suggested that he bring them over for the weekend while he is in town, so I am excited about that.
He has still not mentioned my apology letter, and I've decided I am taking his new attempts at connecting with me as an implicit apology. He did say he hasn't called our friend yet because he wants to get back on his ADHD meds, as he has run out, and I wonder if he is doing the same with talking to me. He gets them Thursday. I didn't hear from him Sunday, and I didn't text. He texted me about the dogs mid-day yesterday, and then at night asked for my help with a new device he has, so I called and we talked for about half an hour. It was all stuff he could have Googled, and it was talked through within approx 5 min, but then we just caught up more. I know he's lonely at his own place far away, and I am sure he's just excited to talk to someone, but I am glad it's me and that we are able to build on communication and he isn't scared to reach out.
He hasn't mentioned R, and I am not going to. Before, when I knew he was in town, I'd ask to try to hang out, but this time I am not - he mentioned the event Saturday, and will be at our running group Thursday (even though he cannot run currently). I somehow get the feeling he will try to stay here at the house, but I don't know why I feel that way. I am trying to not have any expectations, but these new developments make it difficult.
I just read through your thread-- you are doing great! I had one thought though for you that maybe you can only see when you read through everything start to finish... it seems like every time he opens up or turns toward you a little, within in a day or two you turn up the pursuit a little too strong, he backs away, you are disappointed, there is some distance, and then the cycle starts all over again. It seems like you are possibly entering this cycle again-- can you challenge yourself to respond differently? Like if you do see him at the event or the running group, have fun, PMA, whatever, but drop any expectations (and definitely don't ask or call or text) about him coming over? If he does, have fun, say bye! when he goes and don't call or text him afterwards? Have a plan to call a friend instead, or write out the text but don't send it, or whatever... Just restrain yourself.
I think it is the hardest to drop expectations when they are starting to show interest, but that is also probably the most important time. You may have read on other threads about the squirrel or cat or whatever skittish animal comes over to you-- the last thing you want to do is grab it and freak it out forever. You calmly sit there and do your thing.
You got this!!
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I just read through your thread-- you are doing great! I had one thought though for you that maybe you can only see when you read through everything start to finish... it seems like every time he opens up or turns toward you a little, within in a day or two you turn up the pursuit a little too strong, he backs away, you are disappointed, there is some distance, and then the cycle starts all over again. It seems like you are possibly entering this cycle again-- can you challenge yourself to respond differently? Like if you do see him at the event or the running group, have fun, PMA, whatever, but drop any expectations (and definitely don't ask or call or text) about him coming over? If he does, have fun, say bye! when he goes and don't call or text him afterwards? Have a plan to call a friend instead, or write out the text but don't send it, or whatever... Just restrain yourself.
I think it is the hardest to drop expectations when they are starting to show interest, but that is also probably the most important time. You may have read on other threads about the squirrel or cat or whatever skittish animal comes over to you-- the last thing you want to do is grab it and freak it out forever. You calmly sit there and do your thing.
You got this!!
Thank you, May. I appreciate you commenting. You are 100% correct there - and I am challenging myself to respond differently for this weekend. I think because there's been more contact on his end that I feel less desperate, for lack of better word, and don't need that reassurance of jumping the gun on asking if he wants to stay etc. At running group it's fortunately very easy to be kinda detached from him (this was the norm there and why people don't exactly realize what's going on) - I am very well liked there, and since he's injured he won't be running, but I will be, and there are a lot of distractions. When he stayed over Christmas, it was his idea both times, and in the past I've been super clear that he is welcome in our home.
His boss is one of my best friends and how I know him, and therefore I am also friends w/ his boss's wife. Boss's wife texted me today re: this weekend, saying H mentioned wanting to go to Saturday's event. (historically, we all watch this as a group). H told friend that he needs to see if it's OK with his mom if he stays over this weekend - which is odd since I know he never asks, but just show's up (MIL told me this directly). Friend said well, you know you have a house you can stay in....he said "I know," and friend said something about being under the same roof and not even necessarily in the same bed, and H laughed and said he knew. This was some time last week. Last time she put that bug in his ear, he did stay over with me (after running group the day after Xmas).
I am wary of being friendzoned - H had that same fantasy everyone seems to have about us "being friends" and I made it crystal clear I could not be friends with someone who would walk away from our marriage. I believe I've been clear enough for him to believe that's still the case, but who knows. I think I can better assess this in person, so we will see. I don't think he took my statement of not being mad anymore as a statement of 'let's just be friends,' and this wasn't at the beginning of this increase in communication. Some of my friends think it's ridiculous that I am worried about this, and some think it's semi legit but all say to not worry.
I do wonder sometimes if he wants to come back but just doesn't know how to, and if that's why he is suddenly acting like this. I think about the sales world and the 'assumptive close,' and that's kind of how I am working right now. We will see - fortunately, since we don't have kids and I do have a ton of close friends, GAL is easy for me. I do also suspect he will see his IC when he is here, so who knows. It's a strange turn of his behavior towards me, but it does give me the reassurance to just let it be.
I have read bits and pieces of your thread, but I need to go start to finish. I totally understand your fear of the dreaded friendzone. Especially without kids in the picture. I think I am always afraid that it would be easier for the WS to just walk away from a marriage and say "well, that relationship didn't work out, so I'm single again". Whereas with children, the WS is still very much attached to a family dynamic. I agree with May, he has this back and forth action and you seem to jump in too soon (I'm soooo guilty of that as well). I think that we get our hopes up too soon and place expectation on what we so desperately want in our relationship or reconciliation. Good job working through your anger and getting to a place where you are so much more in control of your emotions and reactions. He could very well be feeling more safe to open up with you. The last four words in your last post are the goal. "Just let it be". Keep your head up friend.
KG
LBW 32 - me WW 31 T 7 M 4 No Kids 4 dogs
Separated 1y Navigating the mine field and GAL with or without
Thanks KG! . H ended up dropping the dogs off last night. He had texted saying he was leaving his city, and I was busy and didn't respond, so he called about 30 mins after that. He was super sweet and chatty, said he needed to know if he should give his mom a head's up if I wasn't watching the dogs, which I feel was a complete lie? Either way, he then asked if he could pick me up a special food item from a place between my city and his. I said thank you, that's thoughtful, and only if you're stopping anyhow. He then had to get off the phone due to a work call. The whole thing was just odd and so different than the past several months. I came home, ran, cleaned up the house. I'd had an incredibly frustrating last hour or so of work, so was already pretty keyed up, and just freaked out and didn't know what to expect.
When he got here, he didn't hug me, but stayed and chat some about work. Asked if I was going to running group tonight, or a different similar social activity. I said I wasn't sure, as my foot hurt after my run tonight. He said OK well I assume I will see you some time while I am here. Said he was tired, his back hurt, etc. He said he applied for a job opening in his office, and then for 5 others in different states. I said "what am I supposed to take away from that information?" But, he did the 5 other states as a bluff to his bosses....so OK, fine. He went to leave, and gave me the irritating side arm hug. He then walked towards the door, finished his glass of water, put the dish in the sink and hugged me again (same annoying side arm hug - which I totally ignore and do a full embrace to LOL).
It felt like how it felt months ago. It wasn't awkward, per se, but felt guarded to me, but maybe only because I thought it'd feel different after the past several days of chatty phone calls. Sometimes his tone is flirty on the phone, but never says anything flirty. I didn't cry when he left, but did have several ugly mean feelings that I just let myself feel. I thought I'd feel somewhat better this morning, but I only kind of do. I felt pretty angry last night - like why do I want to remain married to someone so immature and selfish, why would I get a crap side arm hug from my H who I haven't seen in an entire month, maybe he thinks he's doing me a favor by bringing the dogs here but it's just one less thing he is now responsible for this weekend, why does he just assume he will see me instead of trying to make actual plans, etc. I could spend a ton of mental energy dissecting why he did or didn't do stuff - maybe he is waiting for his meds to talk to me/be around me more (very probably tbh), he said he wanted to sleep in before his doctor's appt tomorrow which he knows he can't do here really, his mom's house is closer to the doctor's than our house, it's safer on the phone to talk and he needs to get comfortable again in person more, etc. etc. - but would rather not spend mental energy on it. I am glad that this occurred last night and not closer into the weekend so there will be some time lapse before we see each other again.
I did at least NOT mention going to dinner or planning something, nor did I remind him he can stay here, so that was a win for me - I guess.
The event that H asked me about meeting up at is tomorrow. He also asked his boss's wife about it last week, me over the weekend and apparently another friend of ours last night. Typically, we all watch this event together. At first I was like OK cool he's actually trying to hang out, but now I am annoyed by it? All of these friends are on "my" side and think he's being immature, etc. I am not sure if I am even comfortable with him being around at this event in our nebulous situation. I feel I'd need more clarity with what is going on with us before hanging out in this group environment, but there isn't any non-weird way to address this. What should I do? I don't really think this is him using it as an excuse to see me or anything.
What are you thinking about doing? Not going? Or telling him not to go?
Here is what I would say. If you want to go, go. They're your friends. If you are there and it feels weird and you want to leave, leave. If you decide you don't want to go and want to go do something else fabulous instead, by all means do that.
What I wouldn't recommend doing? Calling him to talk to him about it and using this as an excuse to start an R talk. Just. Don't. I totally know the feeling. Resist!!!
Also, good job on your last interaction not mentioning dinner or planning anything. I know that was probably tough and you did it! I have another suggestion-- next time he goes in for the half arm hug, don't give him a full hug back.
I also know the low-level discontent you get when you think things are going in a certain way and they don't. You just have to live and breathe through it, try your very very best not to say or do anything when you are feeling like that, and then decide once you're on the other side of those feelings how you can respond. Remember that he's also in a totally confused place and even if this ends up going in the direction of R it is going to be two steps forward, one step back, so try not to dissect and analyze his tone, words, length of hug, whatever. Just keep focusing on you.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
May - thank you. I was thinking of telling him not to go. I was avoiding talking about it because of why you said - I didn't want to turn it into an R talk. I think it's moot now.
I have a stressful situation going on at work. I went to dinner w. friends after work, and called H to vent about it (he doesn't know much). He was out with a mutual friend (who has been there a lot for me) and mutual friend was drunk, H wasn't. H said come meet up (also makes a joke about not having a definitive answer about the next bar, and that he knows that him not having a definitive answer for me is the nature of our relationship right now - I laughed). We all meet up at a different bar, and I was down in the dumps re: work situation. H was trying to overly be there for me saying I could vent etc. and that he didn't know if he was making it worse by being there or not, says he loves and cares for me, etc. says at the end of the day he is still my husband (FINALLY he says this). I said it doesn't matter. Proceed to drink more, take friend home, have long convo in the car. H has meltdown in the car about his health issues, he is scared about losing his job, etc. I listened/validated. He then brings up R stuff. I was able to say I don't want to be friendzoned. He says he still feels the same 95% done, but does have some hope inside, and that he had gotten comfortable talking to me more (hence the past week), but is now worried he is going to take a huge backslide due to this health stuff. Was very self loathing at parts - doesn't want to die young, wants to isolate himself so no one is hurt when he dies, etc. I was able to make other points that were important to me - how there isn't a huge difference in how he treats me now vs if we were divorced bc we dont talk much, and how I understand he needs to work on himself and get where he feels he can work on us, but why can't he work on himself beside me instead of away from me? I don't think he understood that. At the end, I didn't really feel better or worse.
I did call to see if he wants to get lunch today - he said no. I wasn't ever able to actually vent to him about work. He said maybe next weekend or the weekend after that b/c he will be in town both of those. I just said OK. I am assuming at this point he will not be contacting me or friends for the parade since he is now wallowing in self loathing alone today, which is fine by me.
We did not see each other at said event - but he did say he went to our usual spot but didn't see our group (we were on the other side of the street, and in costume, so easy to miss). I had a blast regardless, and didn't try to contact him.
Later on Saturday, I called H and said listen, I accept that you're choosing to not be in this marriage, and won't stand in your way, even though I want to remain your wife. This confused him. He said he isn't making a choice right now. I said not making a choice means he treats me for the most part like we are already D. It was a calm convo. He then asked what I was doing the following day, and said he wanted to come by the house around noon. I asked if he was sure, b/c the day before he said the house made him uncomfortable, and he said he was sure and was just in a weird mental place when he said that.
Yesterday, he came by. Began by working on his car outside, and then he started a long, emotional talk, but it was calm. Lots of tears on both of our parts. He said he knows it's unfair for me, and that every day he wonders if that will be the day I call him and say that I can't wait anymore. I said it's helpful when we are in more contact b/c then I can feel more compassion and understand where he's at. He said he doesn't want to D without having actually tried to work things out with me. He said the main roadblock is his resentment, and that he doesn't currently feel hopeful, but that he is trying (and he definitely has been trying over the past week). I validated. He said he is very worried that with this health stuff it's going to set him back on the work he's been doing on us because there are a lot of trajectories this health stuff can take. I said I understood. He is worried he's going to be miserable to be around, and doesn't want to put me through that, and make things worse between us. I said I feel I can handle it. I also said if he ever has any questions or things he needs to know to help re: resentment, LMK. He said he wants to ask his IC on some more ways to get over that. He did acknowledge that spending time together is part of that. We discussed how we do need strategies to handle difficult things going forward. He listened a lot, too. I felt truly heard, and didn't say anything super new. He did on his own say that he thinks he wants to try to stay at our house next weekend (he will be in town for work the next 2 weekends). He said sometimes he thinks he can handle stuff, and then sometimes not. I said I respect and appreciate knowing that. So, IDK. It was a very productive conversation, and one that didn't wreck us both emotionally. He was at the house for approx 5. hours, and seemed to have a good time (even during the convo).
Sort of update - same day that I wrote the previous post, I ended up feeling awful and going home from work early. I'd texted H saying sanitize everything, and he asked how I was and if I was home. He came by, ate and took a nap, then went to his house far away. We texted some during the week - he was on edge about test results and some stuff at work, but was telling me about it. Friday morning he texted asking if I'd leave the deadbolt unlocked so he could come by, but then he never did, and I was too scared to follow up text about it. Saturday day I emailed saying I hoped he was OK - inside I was mad and felt slighted and was hopeful about him staying at the house like he said. He replied to email saying he was super stressed out about finances, admitted that he shouldn't have signed a lease for an expensive place far away. I said I am here in whatever way you need. Later Saturday, I texted "dinner?" and he said yes and that he felt better. We met at the house, and went to dinner. He was strange during part of dinner - kept thinking I was going to get mad at him for every little thing. I wasn't remotely mad at this point. I did ask about Friday, and he said he was too depressed to come over and went to bed at 5. He had to go back to his town Saturday night for a work thing on Sunday. He had actually started to leave when I'd texted, but turned back around to come to dinner. Saturday night I texted saying I hope he's still considering staying at our house (he is in town again this weekend). He said he is still considering it, but he's nervous about how scared he got at dinner that I was going to get mad, and that he knew that was all on him. I called him later Sunday to discuss - he was fine after dinner and hung out at the house a bit before getting on the road. He said he doesn't know why he was like that, but that he is trying. I said I need to spend more time and make sure I still want to wait for him, too. I said sometimes it feels like he is just too scared to call it off, and he said he was sorry that I felt that way, and that it isn't the case, and that he is trying, but having a hard time with health and depression stuff. It's nice to hear that, but I'd rather just feel that way.
For as frustrated and impatient as I am, he has definitely tried more over the past few weeks. I went to dinner w/ a friend last night who I hadn't seen in a month and was updating her and was like....OK I need to calm down and try to be patient again.
He is freaking out about money. Part of my wants to throw a Hail Mary and say - I will pay to break your lease if you come home and work on stuff with us, but there's no way to do that without it sounding super manipulative. I've helped him some financially since we are still married, but it's a strange spot.
I reread an article about C-PTSD and triggers/how to handle them, and referenced it to H in an email asking if any of those techniques would help in the future. I don't know if he will answer.
At dinner, I was complaining about the dryer (our dryer is new but has a part that needs to be replaced again), and he said, "well, at least you have a dryer." I said, "You have a dryer - it's in our house." I know he found this funny, but it's true.
I am trying to just remain standing for our marriage while he is still a complete mess, mentally. I am fed up and impatient, but need to recognize that there has been progress in the past month that is real (him being at the house, us going to dinner, seeing him 2 weekends in a row, talking on the phone way more frequently). It's not like anything would change if I did give up - I wouldn't file, I don't want to see anyone else. Trying to not get my hopes up for this weekend, but we will see.
