22 Years Gone Part 2

[unchien]

XW sent me an email that she would like me to have D13 Christmas Eve. Why would a mom give up her visitation with her daughter on Christmas eve? She only has her 52 days of the year and she wants me to have her on Christmas Eve. Oh well, I told her I would love to have D13. Since I have the extra time I am going to take her to an NBA game and then after we will go to Disneyland. I can't wait I am so excited.

That sounds like an incredible Christmas Eve!! Awesome!

[AnotherStander]

D13 said the dog should be more loyal and trustworthy than the one who walked out on us. I tried my best not to laugh.

It made me laugh! Plus that's setting the bar pretty low

I am still working on myself and trying to detach from a fictional person I was together with for 22 years. Reflecting back I am starting to feel that my XW had multiple affairs on me for many years. I will never know the truth but the signs are all the same each time. We are divorced now but I guess it helps with the letting go part to accept she wasn't the person I put on a pedestal.

Yup you're starting to come out of the LBS fog and see things more realistically.

Regarding your XW doing all the Christmas decorations and cookies and stuff, props to her for at least trying. It's a shame D was upset over it but all you can do is listen (to your D) and validate. Don't be tempted to throw your XW under the bus.

Christmas Eve, don't sweat it. You get another day with D so it's all good. You can't make your XW be a good mom, so don't try.

[kas99]

My WAH blew off Thanksgiving. Have no idea what he will do for Christmas.

[DS9]

Hey Roo,

Glad to hear your car's fixed and you're getting a dog!

I'm sorry to hear about your bad feelings regarding thoughts XW may have had multiple affairs. Isn't it hard not to put the woman we love on a pedestal.

Anyway, hope the xmas leadup is going well for you and your daughter.

Cheers, DS

[rooskers]

Does it ever get any better feeling the loss when D13 leaves for visitation? It rips my heart and soul out when she leaves. Anyone who has been following my sitch do you think I will ever receive any communication in my life from XW as to why she just left. May 23, 2019 she said "I don't love you anymore" and then the next morning left. She has never brought up our relationship since only stuff about finances and visitation. In fact she will not look at me or come near me. At pickup she will not come within 50ft of me and has never said a spoken word to me 4 months.

[DS9]

Hey roo I know that feeling when your child leaves. My S goes for a week and it’s still tough sometimes. The first time it felt really bad but it gets better.

I don’t know if your XW will ever communicate why she left but in your sitch it wasn’t because of you mate. It was her own issues that she largely hid from you til bd when she couldn’t cope anymore. I think I remember you saying she had childhood issues too. In my sitch I got many many reasons some of which I understood others were just selfish and weird. I think the hurt comes from not being given a chance or an opportunity.

Give it time mate

[rooskers]

Disneyland land was awesome and D13 and I created so many memories. After Disneyland I took her to the Hollywood sign, Griffith Observatory, and Hollywood Blvd to look at all the stars on the walk of fame. For the most part we were able to live in the moment. Both of us dread going back but we know we have to do it. The rollercoaster ups and downs don't seem to be as large but they are still there. We both still have our moments of why did she do this.

[rooskers]

D13 got back from a visitation with her mother. It did not go well at all. Essentially D13 wants an apology from her mother and her mother doesn't believe that she has done anything wrong. She keeps moving the conversation back to our relationship and telling D13 that "your dad is feeding you misinformation, and if you only knew the truth." So D13 will say what is the truth then and her mom will say "you aren't old enough to know and you don't know what happened behind closed doors." Part of me would love to know as well. What does she feel happened to necessitate leaving your entire family in one day. I mean she just dropped everything and left. All she did was pack a bag and left everything else behind. It was only because D13 and I packed all her clothes that she picked up the next day, without coming near me, that she even has all her clothes.

Everyone here seems to have some sort of communication but mine is only by email and only in regards to D13 and only when I initiate that like letting her know about therapy appointments (not that I am complaining). D13 was running a little behind when her mom came to pick her up and instead of coming to the door, knocking, and asking if D13 was almost ready she emails me and says she has been waiting for over 10 minutes. She can't even come to the door to pick up D13?

I can't even begin to understand what misinformation she thinks I am feeding D13 because I don't even really talk about her all that much. Mostly I just answer questions when D13 asks them. She might be referring to the alleged affair the second BD but that didn't come from me it came from D13 because she had seen them together. I didn't even know about it until after she had left and D13 told me about it. She denies anything happened to this day and keeps telling D13 that she must have seen someone else holding hands with him and it wasn't her. Regardless D13 tries to tell her mother that the anger has to do with how she feels her mother is treating her not about the other stuff. D13 says her mother says I am sorry and starts crying but can't say what she is sorry for then when D13 puts her on the spot her mother just gets angry and then after that tries to make D13 feel guilty and the cycle goes on and on.

D13 says her mother wants to get a new therapist because she doesn't like D13's therapist. I can't imagine why since D13's therapist calls her mother out on things all the time when they are having a session together. D13 tells me that her therapist is always telling her mother "that isn't what you said last time in the session we had alone together." D13's therapist even told D13 that her mother tried to lecture her on how to be a good mother. I laughed that my XW was lecturing a therapist specializing in children on how to be a good mother.

After their huge blowup during the visitation where D13 started calling her mother by her first name, told her she isn't her mother anymore except in a biological sense, that she doesn't like her as a person, and doesn't want to work or have a relationship at all with her currently or in the near future, my XW goes downstairs and cooks lunch. When D13 goes down to ask to leave XW is as happy and bubbly as ever. How can someone switch on a dime like that and act as if nothing even happened? It doesn't make sense to me. D13 said she acted as if the conversation didn't even happen.

[kas99]

What does she feel happened to necessitate leaving your entire family in one day. I mean she just dropped everything and left. All she did was pack a bag and left everything else behind

I can tell you what I think happened to my WAH. I look back on my 28 year marriage and I don't think he was ever truly happy. Not enough money, he got passed over at work, I'm not good enough, nothing was ever his fault. He couldn't contain his unhappiness anymore so he exploded and ran away.

Since he left me he got promoted, has more money, has friends to hang out with, party with and he got OW. Life is grand proving yet again that I was the problem all along.

I can't even begin to understand what misinformation she thinks I am feeding D13 because I don't even really talk about her all that much.

The misinformation is likely that you're not taking ownership of everything and singing her praises. She's a great wife and mother just ask her she will tell you. Gag. My WAH has no concept of the part he played in this mess. Yes I made a lot....a lot of mistakes but he wasn't perfect either.

I laughed that my XW was lecturing a therapist specializing in children on how to be a good mother.

WAH criticized my parenting in front of S19, angry at how lenient I am with D17. S19 said no one cares about this but him. I told S19 that if he wanted to parent differently he shouldn't have left (yes an uncalled for dig). S19 said he didn't parent well when he was here. Touche.

When D13 goes down to ask to leave XW is as happy and bubbly as ever. How can someone switch on a dime like that and act as if nothing ever happened?

My support group instructor said this is how WAH's brain protects him from facing the truth. He tells himself just enough to go back to being the hero of his own story. It's the therapists fault you know that right?? lol

[AnotherStander]

It did not go well at all. Essentially D13 wants an apology from her mother and her mother doesn't believe that she has done anything wrong. She keeps moving the conversation back to our relationship and telling D13 that "your dad is feeding you misinformation, and if you only knew the truth." So D13 will say what is the truth then and her mom will say "you aren't old enough to know and you don't know what happened behind closed doors."

Breaking it down your XW is lying, gaslighting and deflecting D13. That is so incredibly sad. What a terrible way to treat your own child who is going through so much herself! Rooskers, all you can do is continue to be the lighthouse. You can't fix your XW, and you can't fix her R with D. Don't even try. Remember your listening and validating skills and use them on D13. Do not try to explain or defend your XW's actions. When D13 talks about it, just listen intently and tell her how sorry you are she is going through this and ask if there's anything you can do to help her. If you listen and validate it will help your D to understand her feelings are legitimate and that you respect them, and that's what she needs right now.

Part of me would love to know as well. What does she feel happened to necessitate leaving your entire family in one day. I mean she just dropped everything and left.

XW doesn't even know, and you never will either. accepting that you will never know is an important step in detaching.

I can't even begin to understand what misinformation she thinks I am feeding D13 because I don't even really talk about her all that much.

Read up on gaslighting and deflecting. The whole purpose of it is to keep you off-balance and questioning your own sanity. In that regard it's still working to some extent or you wouldn't be asking these questions!

D13's therapist even told D13 that her mother tried to lecture her on how to be a good mother. I laughed that my XW was lecturing a therapist specializing in children on how to be a good mother.

I can't remember, but have we talked about your XW possibly being a narcissist? Gaslighting is one of a narcissist's favorite tools. Another is intimidation. Here is a blurb from a website on narcissism:

Frequently demeans, intimidates, bullies, or belittles others
Narcissists feel threatened whenever they encounter someone who appears to have something they lack—especially those who are confident and popular. They’re also threatened by people who don’t kowtow to them or who challenge them in any way. Their defense mechanism is contempt. The only way to neutralize the threat and prop up their own sagging ego is to put those people down. They may do it in a patronizing or dismissive way as if to demonstrate how little the other person means to them. Or they may go on the attack with insults, name-calling, bullying, and threats to force the other person back into line.

Who in the world would lecture a therapist on how to be a good mother? A narcissist, that's who.

After their huge blowup during the visitation where D13 started calling her mother by her first name, told her she isn't her mother anymore except in a biological sense, that she doesn't like her as a person, and doesn't want to work or have a relationship at all with her currently or in the near future, my XW goes downstairs and cooks lunch. When D13 goes down to ask to leave XW is as happy and bubbly as ever. How can someone switch on a dime like that and act as if nothing even happened? It doesn't make sense to me. D13 said she acted as if the conversation didn't even happen.

More from the same site:

Exploits others without guilt or shame
Narcissists never develop the ability to identify with the feelings of others—to put themselves in other people’s shoes. In other words, they lack empathy. In many ways, they view the people in their lives as objects—there to serve their needs. As a consequence, they don’t think twice about taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends. Sometimes this interpersonal exploitation is malicious, but often it is simply oblivious. Narcissists simply don’t think about how their behavior affects others. And if you point it out, they still won’t truly get it. The only thing they understand is their own needs.

Lacking empathy, being oblivious to the problem, more traits of narcissism.