Persistant Endurance (Part 7)

[curtis7]

First of all, I appreciate all of the responses on the board. It does give me a lot to think about and apply to my sitch. I have been fortunate to receive tremendous input from so many people that care about me and want to see me reach a better place.

Curtis, her perception is that the marriage is over, and her perception is her reality. So why are you trying to argue and negotiate the terms of the marriage with her when she's already made it crystal clear to you that it's over? If you get fired from your job do you go back to your ex-boss the next day to discuss a pay raise and fewer working hours?

AS, point taken. I’ve had a tendency to get sucked into these R talks on an almost monthly basis. About halfway through the talk in October and again on Thanksgiving, I realized she doesn’t feel we are married and therefore she has no remorse for her choices. These talks ensued upon me trying to push forward with movement towards some type of decision or D. She has made it crystal clear; however, W is not cooperating on this front, she remains ambivalent.

The fact she said you haven’t let her be separated the whole times speaks volumes Curtis. You’re trying to control her.

LH, this is the same rhetoric she has used all along for me discovering and/or attempting to interfere with her A’s. Forgive me for trying to control my W to not cheat on me. What happened to believe nothing WW say? Yes, she was forced into a defensive posture and reverted to her standard response when outed once again. Yes, I tried to maintain some level of control throughout all of this. I haven’t completely let her go for long periods of time, only in spurts. I didn’t stop her from buying a house and moving out. I didn’t expose her A’s. I didn’t cutoff access to her horse. I haven’t filed for D. Those all would have been more extreme versions of control IMO.

Still serving cake to your own detriment, still having R talks, trying tactics and pressure, and talking about moving on instead of moving on.

Your W is telling you everything you need to know and you're clinging hardcore. She has no respect for you.

Are you in IC?

I am not in IC. W went to IC last week. I have not inquired how it went.

I am trying to move on. She did nothing with the asset list. She balked at the D settlement discussion. I feel controlled to some extent.

I wish she would come to me and initiate dates. Maybe that’s just not in her nature, so I have tried to lead on occasion and show her what’s good about us, our MR, and our family. I see this as a very lengthy process if she is to be attracted back. Although, what is more likely to happen is that I become overly frustrated by her lack of effort and push forward with leading the D.

I saw a lot of pressure there on your part. I know what it's like to feel like you need to say a lot of things and get things out but I'm not sure it's ever helped in my situation and it doens't seem like the conversation helped in yours either.

If you are ready to move on then just move on. Contact your L and do what you need to do. You don't need to tell her. Actions over words.

One thing I seem to see a lot: If you pressure the WW or WAS to make a decision she's often going to make the one you don't want. And as the vets say, she is going on her FEELINGS at the MOMENT...they are subject to change but they wont' change if you don't give space and focus on yourself.

Jac, hard to say what effect those conversations have on WW. She may be sensing that her time is running out as I’ve dropped hints that I’m walking away since each one inches closer to D. An uncontested D may be preferred which I’ve been attempting to pursue. She may make the decision I don’t want, but after over a year of knowingly being cheated on, many reach a point where they just want a decision...any decision. I’m a bit frustrated here as I’ve reached out to my L a few weeks ago and am awaiting a draft settlement to present to my W. Must be a busy time of year for L’s. W may very well take no action until I file on my own.

Well, I see you are in the same spot doing the same things. Insanity!

JoeJoe, I don’t completely agree. I am preparing myself to move forward. I am not sitting idly by. Sure, I would be open to R and am still trying to find what may help my sitch. W knows that my patience is wearing thin. She has changed as well. She is spending more time with me and the kids together. She has resumed some activities that were shared pre-BD. Has she shown much indication of wanting to come home? Not much. Has she shown any desire for me? Hardly. Still, I hold on to some hope. I question whether she has doubts of staying away for good and if she has thoughts of ending her A’s. If so, then it’s possible her recent contacts and meetings with the OM could be lapses or relapses and not total collapses. I’ve read that these are to be expected when breaking the addiction of infidelity.

Everyone else has said what I am thinking already but my main question is: why are you still snooping her messages? She is obviously upset and agitated and knows you are snooping somehow but hasn't caught onto your method. This is an invasion of privacy and a control tactic. Change the passwords, remove access to her accounts or devices, whatever it takes to do the right thing because you obviously can't control yourself. You know this is wrong and it's only hurting you and hurting your chances of genuine reconciliation. Please just stop.

I’ve stopped. W asked me stop 3 weeks ago and I have. For a long time I would see or sense things were improving where I thought she may have ended it with the OM. Time and time again my hopes were dashed when I found out she went back to them. Gathering intel isn’t necessarily wrong depending on the circumstances (i.e. confirming A or NC). It can be helpful at times to find out whether what you are doing works. However, there comes a point where it’s better for my own mental state to stop and just assume that the affairs are continuing until she proves otherwise.

Nothing to add to what others have said already. You really don't grasp anything that people say. You say you do, but always revert back to pressure and control.

Best of luck.. I hope you manage to sort your life out in 2020, and not just go over the same old ground like you have for the course of 2019.

Mr Brightside, what can I say, I still love the woman. She turns me on. When I have a choice to be around her or enjoy some event with her, I cherish those moments. I don’t know how many I have left with her, so I’m going to enjoy them when I have the opportunity.

I became stronger in 2019, in 2020 I will be happier. W knows that time is running out. This stems from what I have grasped from people here. She sees my 180s and knows what she stands to lose. I have not given her the sense of loss that has caused her to hit rock bottom and end her A’s. Maybe I’m not strong enough to do that. I certainly have lost a ton of respect for her and almost all trust. I can see where avoiding pressure and R talks are advised early in sitches. However, when things cool off and settle down and communication becomes less adversarial, I feel there comes a time to push the envelope. I don’t want to live in a perpetual state of limbo indefinitely.

Make it your goal to use as little words as possible. Less is more. Convey all of your intentions through actions.  Sometimes silence is action. Your worth is in your silence and your actions  believe it or not. How much impact do you think you will have consistently in your silence, give them the gift of silence and give them the gift of missing you. You are worth every bit of it my friend, and they are worth every bit of that treatment until they earn your respect back with actions. Talk is cheap.

IHC, great advice. I’m trying to implement less is more in text responses and verbal interaction over the past few weeks. She initiates almost all texts and I don’t respond to several especially if unrelated to the kids.

I am not sure what I can tell you that these guys have not already said. Is there something different I can offer you? Perhaps you think I did something that made my H come back? I don't think I did. There were many circumstances that led to his return and I didn't do anything to make him. He chose to.

I can't see in your updates where she is showing you any desire to R with you. Can you tell me what she says and does that lead you to think that? Because what I see is that she is afraid of your reactions and of how difficult a D will be with you. Unfortunately that does not translate into her being confused about wanting to be with you. She is saying and acting in ways that prove she does not.

When she wants to be with you and R, SHE will be the one pursuing you and trying to get YOU back!

Hi Blu, I don’t know there is anything specific you can offer that is different from what others have perceived. I agree that if my W comes back, I hope it is because it was a choice she made and not something I forced upon her. You’re right that she hasn’t shown any real desire to R with me. I really don’t see her pursuing me anytime soon. W and I have spent more time together in the past couple months. That doesn’t mean she wants to (perhaps it’s just related to the holiday spirit between Halloween and New Year’s). W does not initiate, but has accepted more of my invites. This perturbs me, I feel like all of the effort and energy being put into this MR has been one-sided. This is so mentally draining when it’s all give and no receive.