Friends: Season 3--Expanding and thriving

[CMNM]

A writer was asked in an interview if she didn't feel angry at the woman who had stolen her husband, and she replied -

"Stolen? What? Is my husband a piece of candy, to be stolen????"

Exactly!

Briget, I gave your robbery anology a lot of thought. And, I understand where you are coming from on that. However, it was not as if the items in your house had a choice as to whether or not they wanted to be "taken."

I really hate being on the other side of the fence on this with you! I respect you so much, and I guess I have a hard time not being an "arfer" to you! Your pain is fresh, so I totally understand. Even so, you may always feel this way. I can respect that. That's what makes this world great. We are all entitled to our feelings and opinions. I don't think there is a "right" or a "wrong" here. I just feel that you cannot totally forgive the spouse if you are holding on to the anger to the OP.

Kitti, I know it's hard to say the things you did in your post. You gave people a lot to think about from a different perspective.

Bets, hope all is well in your ocean!

[Underdog]

Hello everyone! Before I go on, Pam and Meredith, I've been missing you both....

Thanks for all the really nice thoughts and feelings here. It makes me feel really special. I don't have anything to update in my own world, but I am really at peace. I will credit prayer and divine intervention, because I really see a different me now.

I have been loathe to jump in the OW/OM pool. As many of you know, it was me who was on the very brink of a PA with OM. I will say that I had a very tough time living with the guilt, even though I was such a hurting soul.

As far as the OP befriending you (you being the spouses of the purported cheaters), I don't find it weird at all. It helps them assauge their guilt by extending friendship.

The OP may be guilty of being a whole lot of things, but they also have a partner in crime with an equally unpure motive. They are also human beings with feelings, and I've found that the more compassion I offer to others, the more I receive.

For those of you who are spiritual or religious and who say The Lord's Prayer with any regularity and conviction: Toward the end of the prayer, you ask God, "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us."

You are asking God to extend in exact measure what you offer those who sin and hurt you. IOW, "Dear God, please give me the same treatment that I give my brothers and sisters: If I withhold, please withhold from me as well."

While I have to give Briget a big cyber hug for putting her pain out here (((((Briget))))) I also have to thank Kitti for speaking for those of us who found ourselves the sinners that others hate. (((((Kitti)))))

Part of healing is the willingness to understand others. You guys have been honest with your feelings and fears and doubts and I want to commend you for taking on a dialogue that is so controversial and personal and for taking the time to really listen to each other.

Hopefully, this is all food for thought as we grow and thrive.

Betsey

[merrick]

Betsey-

What a perfect post given what I sent you privately earlier today!

My W's OP said I was his friend and actually encouraged me to be more of his friend at the same time he was sending love notes to my W. To some extent, it's the Bill Clinton compartmentalization of his life that OM was succcessfully engaged in--and it's no coincidence that the OM is a politician. To be viewed as a homewrecker would destroy his self-image, which is why he and our WAS's focus so much on the "natural" course of events as opposed to making a conscious decision on how to act in our lives.

But the truth is, as humans, we are vulnerable--and the same way our spouses fell into another R, we too can fall into destructive anger.

I can only talk about my expereince, but the anger I feel towards OM--and thetimes I have acted on it, have been far more destructive to me than to the OM. It certainly hasn't hurt OM and definitely has not helped my M. I wrote to my W on this issue this morning--that the best way to fight the devil is with love. Does this mean I'm going to invite OM into my bedroom (assuming he has not been there already )? No, but it does mean that we should forgive others as we hope they will forgive us. And all that really means is going forward having learned the lessons of thepast and being confident enough in ourselves that we have lived the best we can and that God will reward us with that effort.

I'm trying to reach the level of peace that Betsey has achieved and hope that she can maintain it. I do not think that such peace is delusional about what is going on around us--but is the peace that Christ and God knew that all of us are capable of securing.

The following is from a daily internet meditation on yesterday's gospel reading. I think it sums it up best.

Tuesday (5/11): “Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you”
Scripture: John 14:27-31

27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. 28 You heard me say to you, `I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it takes place, so that when it does take place, you may believe. 30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me; 31 but I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father. Rise, let us go hence.

Meditation: Do you know the peace which passes all understanding (Phil.4:7)? In his farewell discourse Jesus grants peace as his gift to his disciples. What kind of peace does he offer? The peace of Christ is more than the absence of trouble. It includes everything which makes for our highest good. The world's approach to peace is avoidance of trouble and a refusal to face unpleasant things. Jesus offers the peace which conquers our fears and anxieties. Nothing can take us from the peace and joy of Jesus Christ. No sorrow or grief, no danger, no suffering can make it less. Jesus also speaks of his destination and ultimate triumph over the powers of evil in the world. In the eyes of the world the cross stood for shame, humiliation, and defeat. Jesus went to the cross knowing that it would lead to victory over the powers of sin and of Satan. Jesus also knew that he would return to his Father in glory. The cross brought glory to Jesus and to the Father and it is our way to glory as well. In the Cross of Christ we find true peace and reconciliation with God. Do you live in the peace of Jesus Christ?

"Lord, may your peace be always with me. May no circumstance, trouble, or vexation rob me of the peace which passes all understanding. You, alone, O Lord, are my Peace. May I always reside in that peace by believing your word and by doing your will.”

[TripleJ]

Okay, time to give my two and a half cents in this thing.

Being a person who has experienced his W go through 3 OMs and now is involved in a fourth (yes, I said four!) and having to meet and shake hands with two of them, during 10 months of sep, I feel compelled to get involved in this discussion.

I have thought alot about my sitch in this regard, I was VERY, VERY angry at the OM for this, but there were two important things that I realized that have helped me.

1. My W is not a piece of property.
Just because I have a piece of paper stating that we are bound by the laws of my state that we are married, I DO NOT own her. I did not pay money for her. She is a human being and is free to choose and do whatever she wants to do. She has a mind, a soul.

To say that someone has stolen her from me is a falsehood, i believe. Just like I chose to leave the house, she chose not to let me back. She chose not to love me the same as when we were first married, and she chose to live the life that she is living now. I don't agree with it. I hate it. But it is her choice. It is her life. and she chooses me not to be in it the way I want to be.

2. These OMs do not have the same values that I have.
I think it is pretty crappy what these OMs are involved in. And it especially hurts that my kids are also involved in this turmoil. But is it anyone's fault? Is it my W's fault? Is it OMs? or is it mine? or is it anyone's?

I live by different principles than others. I suspect that these OMs do not know what they are actually getting into, nor do they care. I mean, what do most men use to think with anyway?

Yes, it hurts to see an OM with my W. But its the life my W is choosing, and she is has her own free will. And I can I really fault the OMs for being dumb enough to be trapped in my W's web? I think the answer for me is no.

I am more angry about me being away from my W than someone else being with her. And that my friends, was my choosing.

Triple J

[Growing]

Triple,
I agree with you about OM. I too have no anger toward OM. I accept some of the blame since I did not listen when my W first told me she was unhappy and I'm paying the consequences of my actions.

I have no respect for OM nor my W. OM can not have much respect for his W or himself and my wife has no Respect for me.

However they made the choices to do what they have done and now they have to live with themselves. I feel sorry for them. I don't know if I could live with that much guilt.

[maya]

Betsey,

I have been reading your thread and value the advice you give others. I know many people are pulling on you but I was wondering if you could stop by my thread and offer some advice. I seem to be floundering.

I also have not been able to find any info re: the letter you sent your H. Did you share any info about the content?

mayafool
maya's thread

[KutieKat]

i wanted to stop by and acknowledge those that posted about what i wrote

no, it wasn't easy

and, yes, this whole thing sucks big time

but we all muddle thru don't we?

thank you for being there

[maya]

Thanks for your visit, Betsey.

I am working on building up my inner resources to overcome the negative chatter in my head. Reading Wayne Dyer's "Power of Intention." Wonder how it works when you are also trying to incorporate another person into your intentions.

Will keep reading your post and hope that I have cogent and helpful words to offer you, as well.

mayafool
maya's thread

[Underdog]

Maya,

I realize that I had not responded to you regarding the question about the letter. Well, I posted it on Wonder's thread, because it was a message I wanted to give her as food for thought... but I'll repost it here for good measure. Here you go:

Mr. Wonderful,

I've been trying to figure a way to ask you if you are ready to make a decision in regards to our marriage. No matter what, the questions came out wrong--either sounding too angry or demanding or too vague. I didn't not want to convey any emotion, so I opted not to ask at all.

However, it has now passed the 16-month mark since you moved out. I'm really ready for whatever direction you are prepared to head. I wish you could truly understand that I mean it with sincerity and kindness.

No matter what decision you feel is best for you, for me and for our family, I will respect it and leave you be.

I know you are aware of my wishes. I feel content ~ knowing that we have both changed. I was able to use this time to work on things that were not good for me, you or our relationship. I really should be thanking you for that gift ~ as I doubt very seriously I would have considered the severity of your issues with me prior.

That being said, we truly are different people today. I believe with some effort and honesty, that we could begin a new marriage that could be astounding. With the conversation we had a few weeks ago regarding the tax refund, I really realized that our former marriage is dead. And I know now why people told me that was absolutely necessary.

That death does not mean the absence of one another, regardless of the status of our marriage. It just means, at least to me, that the way we used to interact with each other, the presence of anger, disappointment and resentment, and the lack of respect we demonstrated toward each other is no longer valid.

I'm absolutely amazed at that.

While I believe what is in my heart is true for me, I also realize I cannot and should not assume you feel the same. I think it might help, though, if you would take a few minutes and utilize some of your hidden skills in literary prose. That is, you write. Here goes:

1. Please write us an ending ~ that is, what it looks like in your eyes to end our previous relationship with each other.

2. Please write us a beginning ~ that is, what it looks like for us from here on out.

3. How do you feel we should proceed with that new beginning?

I realize that there is no right or wrong answer. But I believe in you. I believe that what is in your heart is what is best for us.

Either way, I'm excited to hear your answer. It will give my life some much needed closure and direction. I deserve both of them and so do you. To quote our dear Rafiki: It is time.

Thanks,

Bets

[Briget]

Hi my Friends.

I'm having a hard time putting into words my true feelings about the ow.

Part of it is because I'm still in the bleeding stage of this whole sitch.

I can not look at this objectively yet.maybe when the bleeding has stopped.

I know I'm a forgiving person by nature.I just can see me forgiving her yet.

But then again when I got on this board I couldn't imagine me holding my temper. Or holding a job for that matter.I was scared and angry. I did not have control of my temper. I suprised a lot of people.Maybe I will suprise them again one day by forgiving her.But right now that is the farthest thing from my mind.I'm still at the paint a Scarlet letter on her forhead and drag her through the streets stage.However I do have less dreams about doing that.So maybe I will have progress someday.

I'm moving on. I 'm working on getting the images of them together out of my mind.I still have to thought stop on a daily basis.

Every time I think about her or talk about her I feel like I'm picking that scab again.(gross)

I'm still healing but I think I'm a slow healer.

I can truley say I hate her.But I try not to think of her. I will not do anything to her (no matter what i feel) I will let Karma take care of that.

I try not to judge what others in this sitch have done.I have no right to judge what anyone here has done.I'm only judgmental in my own sitch.

I know that in my sitch she knew we had five children,that we had just bought a house.

I have needs right now and it would be very easy for me to get them filled outside of my marriage.I'm hit on on a daily basis. And even if I did decide to fill my needs outside of my marriage I would never choose a married man.

I'm going to stay off of this subject for now.I'm afraid I will undo all the work I have done to heal by picking at my scabs.(gross)

I love you all very much for letting me vent my feelings even if it isn't the right thing to feel.

I'm doing so good I don't want to undo all the work I have done to heal.

Later Friends.
Briget