Wonder--You raised some terrific musings here. I wanted to address them now in case this is unclear to anyone who is tuning into our episode for the first time.
A "boundary" is not another version of a means of controlling someone. It is merely a definition to encapsulate a value we hold dear. And then that means you enforce it.
A control issue is something you have when you want someone to do your bidding. That is not reasonable, nor is it a boundary.
A boundary should be something that we've considered and decided is too important to ignore or to reject. For instance, IF Mr. Wonderful were to continue drinking and driving (which he does not do, this is hypothetical), I would have no qualms in petitioning for full custody of our girls.
That is a deal breaker for me, because it means that he would have no regard for his own life or the life of others. That is a boundary I feel is important in enforcing.
There are always consequences for decisions. Unless I'm the parent, it isn't my job to mete out punishment or point this out. But I've found that they always present themselves, and if I'm patient AND silent, they usually speak much louder than I ever could.
So summarizing, while we can express how we would like to be treated to someone, we cannot force them to do our bidding. However, we CAN and SHOULD take care of ourselves if they choose not to respect our wishes. That is done by taking action: whether leaving the situation or avoiding interaction with the offender. It shows respect for ourselves when we demonstrate that certain behaviors are intolerable.
I hope this clears up any confusion on control issues vs. boundaries.
With that, I wish all mothers a happy weekend! May there be no fights with children or enforcing boundaries!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Well, how would you treat your teenager if you discovered an incessant path of lying?
Little kids are a whole lot easier to work with, so I couldn't go there.
However, the consequence for lying is that people no longer value the words that come out of their mouths. The person who figures this out has to deal with the trust issues that they created until their word finally has credibility.
While I agree that a spouse lying is a little different, it shouldn't be treated much differently. For one, are you actively trying to catch him in lies? That has to be the most underrated cheeseless tunnel on the planet. It puts you in the position of being the hunter and him in the position of being the hunted. And that would be a terrific reason for him to fear being honest.
The trick is to draw him into feeling comfortable being honest with you.
I'll admit that this was very tough for me. I ABHOR lies! The old me would have chomped my fish friend until there were a few bones from his skeleton. How in the world did I encourage his honesty when he knew full well I'd rip into him without pause?
It becomes a game of extreme patience. You must promise yourself that you won't be the one to dole out consequences. This is going to take time.
If this is a real problem between you right now, I don't think that having a boundary is the problem. It's how you deal with the problem to begin with. Why not share with us the reasons why he would feel the need to lie instead of be truthful with you?
We're here to help.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
You aren't thick, sweetie. Remember Sage's words of wisdom awhile back? That we all process things at our own speed and when we're ready? Not a minute before?
Well, sometimes the message is in front of us the entire time. Until we "get it", it becomes an elusive lesson. Otherwise, none of us would be here. We would be living our lives according to the rules we learned in kindergarten!
So why the heck isn't life that simple or easy?
Dang, I might have to navel gaze on this one for the rest of the day!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Some people, my H included, lie out of habbit. It is simply a habbit for him to lie. Originally he did to protect himself, but he's gotten so used to it that it just comes naturally. He even lies when it would be just as easy to tell the truth. And it is hard to ignore that.
By me telling him that I won't take the lie he's handed out, I am asking him to stop and consider if it is the truth, and if not, what is. He's got to be comfortable enough with me to say, "crap, I meant to say..." If I still do not receive something that I can take to be honest then I know he's lying out of fear.
Even if I know he's lying, it won't do ME any good to figure out the truth. If it is putting the children in danger, I'll attack it then...but if not, I let it roll. I do try to always let him know that I am on to his game, but in a non-threatening way. By letting him know that I can identify his false statements, I am hoping he'll stop and think twice before handing me one. But that doesn't mean I have to stand around and get more frustrated by hearing the baloney either. That, is the reason for my boundary.
The baloney flying made me far more angry than anything else. And we know what anger does to a crazymaker! So, I had to stop that convo - with a quickness! That boundary, like so many others, is for ME. I'm moving forward, he can catch up later.
Betsey empahsized perfectly the point I was making with the daycare contribution story. He did so many things (as PA people do) to get my goat. When I stopped allowing it to bother me, and he started to see that he looked like the idiot the behavior began to cease. He had no reason to do it, because I wasn't paying him any attention. He had a lot more reason start acting human because he was the one getting the grief from the teachers. You see?
There is a reason they do what they do. Take away the reason and all you'll be left with are the previously formed habbits. Start breaking down those...and whamo - you've done it!
Again, I have to say, this week has been so weird! I detached, I set boundaries, he fell into line! Jeez, if only I had managed to do this months ago. You know it works when you don't CARE if it works.
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
Hmm, lots of food for thought. But I'm at work at the moment, so I can't answer fully. But I'll be back this evening after pondering Betsey's and your questions. It may be a bit of my putting the cart before the ox, but I see Trust/Lying as one of the major issues we would face if I ever make it over here to Piecing! As well as something that could keep us from getting there. He's always HATED when I called him a liar - gets angry & turns away from me.
I can say briefly - I also think it has became a bad habit for him; and it was often a reaction against my controlling & crazymaking nature. But there's lots more involved, that need me to be away from work to ponder & put into words.
Thanks very much for helping me through this issue! -H2H
Wow - this thread is gold! And what a great time for me to read about all this. For some weird reason, I am still fighting here - just quietly from the sidelines.
I have had some serious personal revelations, and while I am still not ready to talk about my sitch in detail, I am really benefiting from the current conversation here - thanks again, all of you!
Hugs, Myrrh
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.
Betsey 
