Down, but not out ..... yet.

[DonH]

I should just let it go. I should shut my mouth and just walk away, yet i can't. I just can't let some of these false statements stand.

I love OLD.

Said no one ever... well until juju met her latest guy and is completely intoxicated in the land of new love. I mean, really, Juju, you are the very first and only person I've ever heard who loves OLD. If it's finally worked for you with this latest guy, that's great but before that... by your own admission, not so much.

At least with online dating you know that they are looking for some sort of meet up with the opposite sex.

Further to what JuJuB has said, one of the key differences with OLD vs meeting organically is that there is no pussy-footing (or so I presume) about intentions. It's right there on your profile - "looking for a relationship" or "looking to date but nothing serious".

Again, this is simply NOT TRUE!!!! According to the Pew Research Center, "One-third of people who have used online dating have never actually gone on a date with someone they met on these sites." so let's start there - and Pew is no slacker outfit. We have seen on this very board how people put up OLD profiles and then decide it's too soon and never go on a date - or worse yet (for the other person) go on a date or two and then figure out they have made a big mistake and should not be online. I can tell you first hand one of the biggest complaints of OLD'rs is people who only seem to want a pen pal or to text with and make every excuse in the book to not ever meet. Then there are all the BOTs and scammers and cat fishers. Need I say more? If only everyone OLD were actually looking to meet someone - that would be awesome.

But your advice to Ginger is geared forwards getting a guy like you.

To start, I very much agree with you juju that there is nothing wrong with wanting an R - nothing at all, I totally agree. What I'm trying to say is how you go about trying to get it. I'm not trying to get Ginger or you to find a guy like me. What I'm saying is two-fold. First and foremost, I'm not coming up with these things on my own. I'm following the advice of New York Times best selling authors. I hold MWD in very high regard for what she has written in her books. Its the same with Sherry Argov and her best selling book. I didn't come up with or write this stuff - they did. I am only repeating what THEY have written. If you want to say they are wrong, go ahead but I strongly think you can only try to say they are wrong for you. In the case of Argov she interviewed thousands of men. Are all these men wrong too? Why would they lie to her? They actually told her the truth they very well may not tell their wives or GFs or other women. Ignore their advice and what these authors write at your own peril. I fully believe they have it correct in what they are saying and for sure Argov was told by thousands of guys what will win them over - and always being available, talking about LTR or M or children early on, accepting last minute dates, giving up hobbies, friends, and making him the center of your world much more often than not WILL NOT WORK.

As for me, I think the right woman could land me as well (after all it has happened many times before) - as avoidant as I am. I so totally need to spell this out on my own thread but my point is i don't 'think I'm as avoidant as perhaps I might have thought. It think it's just as much or even more the quality of women I've met and the neediness, clingyness of some of them. Wild Girl is one story but the woman formerly from AK was totally different. She'd be married yet today had her husband not died and was a very quality woman who didn't play games at all - at least from what I could tell in the year we long distance dated. Have you read the book Juju? You may well not agree but you might see the point I'm making much better. You can get enough of it free online to tell.

We are all a product of what we've done and our lives. Something has not worked for me so I tend to poo-poo it. Something seems to maybe finally have worked for you so now it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. And since one guy at least for now, continues to pursue and be all in with you, breaking these rules are working for you. I just hope that continues to be the case. There are no never's and no always in life. Anytime we say everyone or no one, we are most certainly wrong. There are exceptions to every rule. I'm just saying as a rule, OLD fails more than it works and as a rule, going against what MWD and Sherry Argov say in their books will result in a failed R.

Most of all, I want to keep things based in facts and in truths not in feelings, guesses and personal anecdote. I hope I'm not coming off too aggressive here - because I'm really not trying to be. I think you are a well spoken, thoughtful and educated lady JuJu. I just could not let a few of these comments stand unchallenged and want to try to keep things not to what you or I think but to statistics and research on what hundreds or thousands think and recommend. Plus I love a great debate. And I'm very good a disagreeing and still liking and being friends with the other person.