I told her I wouldn’t go and a bit later she asked what I wanted and said she will get it. No bad attitude about it. She also did my laundry. I agree with Sandi on making a plan of action that starts with no accommodation. The second point will likely be as much GAL as possible simply to avoid being available for any of these issues to occur.
Let’s start with a hypothetical and pretend this was a friend of yours who betrayed your trust a year ago. You were able to work it out with him and you decided to buy a house together. 6 months after buying a house he decides he wants to terminate the friendship and kick you out of the house. Would you listen to him vent up work? Would you chit chat over text? What you get him food?
How would you interact with him in the house until he bought you out and you got another place?
Maybe it is a coping method, IDK. I see LBH's with a WW rationalize why he does whatever the WW says, and I think it's more common for men with NGS who have been bullied or extremely manipulated. I don't know if he recognizes what he's doing at the time. Whenever I read a post from a LBH who is rationalizing why he gave in to whatever his WW said...... it sounds like excuses, to me. However, some guys can get offended and get defensive if they are accused of making excuses. I think you do it, in order to just tolerate living with her. Perhaps unconsciously, it gives you a way out, rather than having to deal with the bigger picture.
I think that bolded part is it. I really, REALLY did not want my XW to move out. As bad as life was after BD, leaving everything the same still would have been the easiest way forward. So I can definitely sympathize with the sentiments the LBS is feeling in this regard. BUT, maintaining the status quo is just extending the misery. There is no joy in a sexless, loveless marriage and continuing to let the WAS cake-eat and manipulate and play games is not the right path forward. There's no personal growth, and there's no repair to the relationship. Something has got to change in the situation, and the LBS is the one with the power to change things. Breaking out of the status quo is hard and even painful, but things have to change before healing and growth can begin.
I think you are all right. I have been afraid of establishing a new normal. Afraid of being friend zoned and her getting used to be "separated". Well the fear is gone. I went to the gym with a new workout buddy today and it did me wonders. I am so OVER W and her crap. She said she would go to the store today to get ingredients for dinner and on the way home tells me she didn't go. Now I had to go on the way home from the gym and I am no longer even going to cook the dinner. All she does is let me down.
Today she also asked about my plans for Thanksgiving. I told her My family has plans, but the cost and travel is a concern. She said don't worry about cost, go if I want. Then she said her mom needs to know if she will be joining them, but that means I am here with the dogs, alone for Thanksgiving. Was frustrated I didn't have an immediate answer, had the audacity to say this whole situation was frustrating her. She also mentioned a trip she is apparently planning with a guy she met while she was away. Immediately I am red flagged. This was my original suspect for a potential OM (albeit with a few major flaws to the theory). I haven't heard of him since she got back and thought I was crazy. Now she tells me they have been trying to go to Vegas (remember her gambling addiction) and he offered to buy her plane ticket a few weeks ago when they had a three day weekend! She said it was too short notice and maybe they will go for Veteran's Day. I told her we needed to discuss finances. I am worried about the debt that is in now in my name as we had a plan to consolidate some costs from the move and not pay interest until next year. I am no longer comfortable letting it sit and told her I need a large portion paid monthly. She said no problem, give her the plan and she will pay (my plan to come up with, apparently, even though it is OUR debt). Then she says she will make it work, she is not limiting herself if she wants to take trips. I guess she knows how to create money out of thin air now.
I am feeling enraged and fed up. Honestly, if I had evidence of the A right now, I would tell her to leave. I don't care about the risk of her not paying. I will figure it out. I am not going to sit taking care of the house and dogs while she takes trips to see potential OM. No way. I'm not Mr Nice Guy anymore, maybe I will fight her for the house and everything else. She set herself up to be screwed by divorce. Why not give it to her. I am venting a bit right now, but this feels like a turning point for me. The only way I will ever consider recon is if she is on her knees begging and I don't see it happening. In the meantime I don't want to waste another ounce of my time or energy on her and all this misery she has created. I am so angry she has caused this daily distress for me, TWICE in two years now. And to think she is probably down there messaging some other guy, I just can't. Someone talk me down from the ledge.
I've got you brother. My hand is firmly on your shoulder holding you away from that ledge.
One thing I've learned is don't do anything in anger in this situation. Examine the 'energy', or motivation, behind what you're thinking. If the energy is anger (and you're perfectly right and entitled to be angry mind you), then dont do anything except something to release that. Keep repeating the word 'calm' over and over and over. Chuck on some headphones and play your fave music at full tilt til your thoughts subside, or listen to some thought provoking podcasts. Have you tried Dr Robert Glover, author of NMMNG?
By all means, establish your boundaries about her cakeeating, but don't do it in a fit of anger. You're on the higher road, remember.
Keep your chin up mate
Cheers, DS
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Hang in there, 44. That anger is normal, I've struggled with it as well.
One thing I've learned is that when I react to that anger and lash out, it NEVER goes well for me and I end up regretting it. What I do now is go to the gym, put on my headphones, and lift weights until I'm exhausted. It really does help burn the anger off.
DS and T, your support means everything. Thank you. The reminders about what to do with the anger are extremely helpful. I have managed to unleash none of it on W so far.
Except I did briefly snoop on her computer. Still no access to messages so it's largely useless, but after our talk yesterday I knew she was likely looking at travel plans. Well, lo and behold, she has booked a ticket for $650 but not to Vegas like she claimed. Some city I have never even heard of (and I am good with geography) in the most random state you can imagine. This is more money than I think I have ever spent on one plane ticket, outside of international travel. And it is for one weekend. I also asked her if she had discussed the plans with the guy last night as she said she would, and she said no, she hasn't made any plans yet. Another lie for the books. As everyone has told me, the slow watching and waiting will always turn up the truth. I just can't fill in the blanks quite yet. None of it makes any sense. But you don't spend that kind of money to visit friends, right?
Honestly, if I had evidence of the A right now, I would tell her to leave.
44, she's having an affair. She's done everything but show you pictures. She told you she's planning a trip with him, she's told you she's in contact with him, you caught her lying about buying a ticket and lying about the trip destination. What more do you need? Why is this important, well because you are torturing yourself snooping, you need to just accept the affair is in full swing and quit snooping and do whatever you feel you need to do. I am sorry you're going through this, it's ugly business for sure. Just plan to get your finances squared away and do what you have to do to protect yourself because she may go full GGW and engage in the wild spending that goes with it.
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Someone talk me down from the ledge.
It's OK to be angry. Of course you are, who wouldn't be? Try to process the anger in healthy ways (boxing, lifting weights, running, maybe find a private place and just scream your head off, I actually did that a couple of times). Don't take any actions while you're angry, give yourself time to cool off and then decide what you want to do.
Maybe the question is what constitutes a$$ kissing.
NOTHING!!! Absolutely nothing! Don't confuse kissing a$$ with kindness, love, patience, or cooperation. Kissing her a$$ demonstrates weakness and it empowers her bullying. She knows you are a$$ kissing! There is absolutely nothing attractive about any man kissing a$$. This is why you have suffered with a sexually starved marriage. She lost respect for you as a man, b/c of this dynamic where she was calling the shots and you were kissing her a$$, and it killed the sexual attraction.
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If she is hostile and manipulative like she was the night of my GAL, I am clear. But what if she is nice?
Let me be clear.......she is not nice. She plays you, uses you for whatever benefits her in any given moment. You are not clear about anything that has to do with her. Just b/c she is not showing her hatefulness when she tells you to run get her something, or to keep her company, or whatever..........does not mean she is being nice. It may be a moment one might identify as being "civil", but based on what you've told us about her..........I believe you go all melty-cheese whenever she behaves a bit civil. That's what gets you into trouble every time. You think she's being nice and you let down your guard. She's not nice, 44. She disrespects you, and you've lied to yourself until you can't see the truth.
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Today, I told her I would not be the one to go get food.
If she is going to call this situation an IHS, then conduct yourself accordingly. You don't have kids, so you don't have to eat together, have cozy talks (or in your case........she wants to do all the talking and you do all the listening), or show up together at social/family events. Stop serving cake. Okay, so she went to the store and she washed something of yours........while it may be rare for her to do it, don't try to make it some type of sign. You don't even have to do something for her. In fact, whenever she does something you see as being along the "nicer" side, you had better sharpen your senses b/c this woman is setting you up to use later. It might be later that night, or next week/month......but it's coming.
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Except I did briefly snoop on her computer. Still no access to messages so it's largely useless, but after our talk yesterday I knew she was likely looking at travel plans. Well, lo and behold, she has booked a ticket for $650 but not to Vegas like she claimed. Some city I have never even heard of (and I am good with geography) in the most random state you can imagine. This is more money than I think I have ever spent on one plane ticket, outside of international travel. And it is for one weekend. I also asked her if she had discussed the plans with the guy last night as she said she would, and she said no, she hasn't made any plans yet. Another lie for the books. As everyone has told me, the slow watching and waiting will always turn up the truth. I just can't fill in the blanks quite yet. None of it makes any sense. But you don't spend that kind of money to visit friends, right?
It makes perfect sense to me. You don't want to believe it, so you go into denial. Your wife is going away to be with another man, 44. Open your eyes.
I think another thing that may cause confusion for you is that you want to use the softer actions/methods you were applying last year when you had a fake reconciliation. That period has passed and things have shifted to a different phase. Now, you have to apply the last resort technique, and I mean the latter part of LRT. No more playing friends, b/c it confuses you. No more accommodating her. No more Mr. Nice Guy!
Forget filling in the blanks, b/c you would rationalize it if you saw living proof. I think you told yourself as long as she wasn't in an A then you could cope with how she treated you. It is not working.
Focus on what priorities you need to set to stabilize your emotional & physical well-being, while still meeting the demands of your studies.
Have a plan of activity (GAL) while she is gone on her "trip".
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
We are all on the same page. Some shake ups in this update...
I managed to calm down and digest the affair after finding the plane ticket info this morning. But it all went out the window when I heard her on the phone tonight. She was helping me cook dinner after I got home from GAL and of course it was 7pm, her new bedtime and she had to run off. Whatever. A bit later I go downstairs to go to the office, which is right next to “her bedroom”. She had music playing but I could clearly hear her on the phone. I honestly could make myself crazy wondering what exactly I heard, but it was a mumbly, intimate sounding, flirtatious conversation. Lots of talk about being too distracted to focus at work... It went on for a while, until finally she came out of the room and asked if I was doing homework when she saw me in the office. I said yes, and then (the part where I just couldn’t bite my tongue) I asked who she was talking to on the phone. She said xxx coworker. I said wow pretty weird stuff to be saying to xxx. She asked what I was talking about, acting like I’m crazy. The fuse is practically non existent so I knew immediately this was headed for an R convo as soon as she talked about the “discomfort” of being in the same house.
Well guys, I told her to get out. I said I know exactly what’s going on and I’m done hearing her ridiculous speeches about why I won’t leave. She’s having an A and will be the one to go. She did not go down easy, as you may have predicted. She chose the neither confirm nor deny approach on the A, and routinely turned it back on me leaving and it being the obvious answer. I wouldn’t budge, and probably used too many words to say no I’m not the one cleaning up this mess. Well at one point she slammed the door in my face while she started packing and was getting very emotional. I left the room and let her storm the house in her snow boots collecting everything she owns that she can fit in her car. Of course, it didn’t really end there and she roped me back in for the second half.
She brought out some divorce checklists she had printed and started waving them around the kitchen screaming. She said does she need to hire a lawyer, how is it going to go, tell her now. We need to start the process. Ultimately, it was a lot of back and forth of her pushing and me not saying anything different. Finally I proposed a plan I had discussed with my therapist that if I do not fight for the house, I can stay until May when I graduate. At first this was unacceptable and still not part of her vision. But that was my offer and eventually she had to consider it. She said she doesn’t know how the finances will work and she will only be paying the bare minimum, but this includes the mortgage and anything else I need. She will rent a different place. At the end she asked me if she could stay for the night and find a place tomorrow. I sat for a good while until I said okay. She also told me near the end, when it calmed down a bit, that she blew up at her boss and has been assigned anger management classes and is also seeking overall therapy on her own. She said she found out she can go off record (not sure how since I was told otherwise) and is going to start. She kept saying she is a piece of sh!t and just overall seemed so angry and full of self hatred.
Anyway, I feel scared about all this but it doesn’t seem like I’m in danger of her not paying for the home. And she will be the one to get a separate place, and I maintain the home. This feels like a win. The problem is the inevitable reality she can’t afford it and she already asked if it was feasible for me to work part time. She said she didn’t want me to have to work a bad job, I just told her I would look at options. Either way, party’s over and she has to face reality. At least she is actually discussing real options now rather than her one way only option I have rejected 100 times. She will give up everything if she wants this separation. And I have given her no choice because I told her I want her out. I expect to feel a lot more heat tomorrow. And I’m still not sure it I did everything wrong and you all can tear me apart.
