DB Suggestions Thread

[hoosjim]

My own thoughts on some of the issues raised here, and on some things that occur to me, in no particular order:

First, blu:

I am okay with people not agreeing with my position and what I write here, but I am not interested in arguing about it or arguing with any of you. It's just not a good use of time. I am only here for one reason. I am here because my BD was the hardest time in my life -- my sitch was extreme and not just a little bump in my M or brief parting or ea -- and the lovely vets and these threads 5 years ago kept me going in those very dark days. So I share my story for anyone that can take comfort in that. I also look for people here that may need something that I can offer them. That's it. I am not here to be right, to tell anyone they are wrong, to tell someone that they have to do something, or to cause any more fear, shame or hurt. If you are reading this and even questioning yourself and how you post, then I hope you will at least spend more time and thoughtful care as you post moving forward.

I thought this was a really valuable post overall, and not just the part quoted above. Thank you for it. I particularly like the emphasis on remembering what we are doing here. Yes, alot of us are here to find help ourselves, in dealing with our own personal situations, by finding folks to listen and provide support, and, if possible, to save our marriages. But when we venture forth onto others' threads, no matter how much that process may be a learning one valuable for our own situations, it is important to keep in mind that the person on whose thread you are posting is in a dark, hard, place, just like you are (or were) and that they, too, need help... and that due to the variations in everyone's situation, the help they need may not be exactly the type of help you needed. Advice can be a dangerous thing, and, as both an advisor and as the advised, i always (these days, at least) try to keep in mind that 1) everybody's situation is different but that 2) you can usually find some grain of commonality or helpful advice even in the most seemingly different situation. The key is being able to find those areas of commonality, both when you are providing advice/support to someone, and when you are reading other folks' advice to you.

Second... Yes, temperaments vary widely on here, as they do everywhere. We are all human. Some people are more frank than others, some more confrontational, some more nurturing, etc. Also, Interacting on social media or via email or via any electronic media for that matter is hard... You are lacking inflection and body language and expression and, in many cases, context. The written word has a natural tendency to come across as colder... more abrupt. Misunderstandings and ruffled feathers occur. I always tell my boys this: Don't type it to someone in an email or text or on a chat board if you wouldn't say it to their face, and on the other side if someone types something to you that angers you, don't automatically assume they meant you ill.

I will say that, yes I, as i have seen others mention on this thread, was angered on a couple of occasions by posters being what I thought was too confrontational-- in particular taking what i thought were "shots" at my W after we were (or at least after i THOUGHT we were, lol) on the road to reconciling. (For those not familiar with my sitch, i did in fact DB/save my marriage, and my W and I are pretty much fully reconciled now-- prolly better than we have ever been.) But in the end you can try to understand where others are coming from-- when ones MR has been ended by an unfaithful spouse, and NOT reconciled, those scars can be life-altering, can last a looooong time, and, yes, can impact, for better or worse, one's outlook on life, love, marriage, and how an unfaithful spouse should be treated. Doesn't mean you need reject those folks' suggestions out of hand-- there are cautionary tales for them to tell, and their experiences are as valuable as the folks who didn't "make it through" to reconcilliation. You just need to know how to separate the wheat from the chaffe, and it also helps to try to thicken your skin up and have some patience with others.

Third, i, too, have noticed the M/F "skew" on this site, and it has been noted by others, as well (Even Sandi2, IIRC). It's a larger sociological question, obviously, and i have heard it discussed by Esther Pearle as well, but for some reason, as infidelity has increased in general, the rate of INCREASE in infidelity by wives/women has outpaced the rate of increase by men. Perhaps a bit of a catch-up... whatever. For whatever reason, the syndrome Sandi2 identifies as the "Wayward Wife" seems to predominate on this website. I have never done a tally but I'd bet that 75% of the "cases" on here are LBHs, and, of those 2/3rds or more involve WWs-- women in the throws of an emotional or physical affair who have decided "enough is enough" with their MR and are going through all the stages and steps and scripts that seem to be drawn from a common playbook. I am NOT saying women are more prone to cheat when i say this... just that it shows up WAY more than any other pattern on this website for some reason. As such, the testosterone level probably gets a little high sometimes, but i think the women do have something valuable to offer the men and vice versa. Some of my most valued mentors on this site have been women-- Sandi2, artista, ginger, 25yrsMLC. Having said that-- I am a firm believer that men gotta be men. And by this i don't mean the blustering, swaggering, "bro" caricature that has been mentioned, but rather a strong, confident, assertive (not necessarily aggressive, though that has its place in rare instances), capable MAN. Not a lunkhead, a MAN. We're very different than women, and that's a very good thing... for both sexes.

I certainly can't speak for all women or even most women. All i can tell you is that my life experience has been that the majority of women I have encountered in social or romantic spheres have been significantly more responsive (not submissive, but responsive) to alpha male behavior. And, again, by "Alpha" i dont' mean domineering lunkhead behavior, but strong, confident, assured behavior and interaction and leadership. I've seen it with myself, i've seen it with friends, and I have seen it most recently and especially with my wife (who is herself a strong and outgoing personality and a high sex-drive woman who can be, herself, forward at times). When i rediscovered my inner "alpha"... which i had lost somewhere along the way, the difference in my W's attitude toward me changed profoundly. The keystone moment here obviously being when i had had enough of her WW shenanigans and walked out, leaving her behind to continue pursuing my own life, which had become quite awesome by then-- but i continue to see it to this day. One trap into which i had fallen over the years was indecision, overanalyzing, etc. I don't even remember exactly what it was but a few months back someone texted me to do something when W and were sitting on the couch together (she saw the incoming text) and i immediately dicated back "Sure, see you in 30 minutes." Her eyes got wide and she leaned into me saying... "Who ARE you... look at you all decisive now!" Long story short, i did NOT make it to meet my friend in 30 minutes... it was somewhat later than that. AT ANY RATE... this is not to say that i think one, man or woman, is better than the other, or that women cant be leaders... BUT... in matters of the heart, and i wholeheartedly agree with her here, Sandi2 has said over and over that woman cannot be amorously attracted to a man she does not respect. It is the loss of respect that is at the root of a WW's rebellion and mindset. Reclaiming one's "alpha" self can be an critical element in reclaiming such respect. If we jest with each other about "getting your balls back" well, that's what we men do-- significantly more often than not.... But i can allow that one needs to know one's audience, that someone who just got dumped just MAY not want to come here and hear that first thing, and that there is MUCH value in getting to know someone (at least insofar as that as possible here) before assuming that level of familiarity.

Fourth-- My pet peeve with this place was always the contingent who insisted that "There can be no reconcilliation without separation" and that "IF the process is ever to play out to reconcilliation, it HAS TO take YEARS" etc etc. Simply not true. Not with me, not with TxHubby, not with Sandi2. All reconciled. Yes, I left. Briefly. Two weeks. That had to happen. Yes, TxHubby effectively "separated" in-house (VERY difficult thing to accomplish). But neither required actual separation and neither took years. (I was 15 months from BD to full-on piecing/reconciling, but the "Active" part of the affair--an EA in my case-- was over less than 5 months after BD and we were making real progress just 9 months after BD). I say this not to call out the folks with this mindset (and, to be fair, there are probably at least as many cases where their pattern of reconcilliation holds true) but to again emphasize that EVERYONE'S SITCH IS DIFFERENT.

Fifth-- Pet peeve number two, and here I am agreeing with ManyWorries here: The "you can't hold out hope for reconcilliation" paradigm, also espoused as some form of "you must completely let her go." Yes, in some respects, this is true... namely that you need to make peace with the possibility that your MR MIGHT NOT survive, if you are to successfully DB. To me, however, to say you should abandon all efforts aimed at "saving the marriage" is nonsensical. This is, after all, "Divorce Busting", and MWD has made her career on saving marriages and busting divorces. I see no inconstancy in, on the one hand, making peace with all outcomes while, at the same time, striving within the parameters of DBing to save your marriage and, all else being equal, recognizing that as the desired outcome.

Sixth-- Yes, absolutely true-- reconcilliation/piecing can NOT begin and has NO HOPE while an affair of any sort continues. The affair has GOT TO end if the marriage is to be saved.

Finally, I have really valued this place, and people here. I think it's safe to say that, at one time or another, I have gleaned something useful from everyone who contributed to my threads, and several on whose threads i posted, even the ones with whom i frequently (and loudly, emotionally and, sad to say, sometimes obnoxiously) disagreed. My MR is reborn, better than ever, and i can say without a doubt that it was a blessing from God, and part of the only path that would have gotten me to where i am, that I was led to this site. I hope it continues in existence for many years...