First of all, thank you so much Sandi, for taking the time to write so much to me. I know exactly why you have a "harsh edge" and what your intentions are. I Understand how the LBH needs to really be reminded what he is dealing with and I think your approach is great for that. You are worried about disclaiming what you wrote to me for newcomers, but to be honest, it really is not against DBing. You are telling me to let go of the MR, and the dream I had for it, and move forward with the sole focus of protecting myself and not worrying about WW. That is what I have been told since the day I joined this board. You may have put it bluntly, or maybe you meant it in some distinguishing way, but the reality is TRUE DB is doing what you suggested, and I have not yet gotten to that place where I have truly let go. I have made a lot of peace, I've succeeded in all the non pursuit and faking it, but have I ever truly moved forward with the mindset that I am not hoping for R? No. And it will be very tough. Some of it will still be faking it. But, unless I am misinterpreting you somehow, I hear clearly what you are saying and fully subscribe. I just cannot have the fear anymore. And the only way that happens is to actually let go.
Your bully example with Opie was great. If the fear goes, everything changes. Suddenly all that power it holds over me is gone. My next IC session I am going to specifically bring up that I want to work on this issue. Getting rid of the fear. You put it as the fear of divorce, and I think that's an apt way to describe it. I don't know if it is one thing over the other. It's losing my wife, my home, my lifestyle, security/comfort zone, feeling humiliated about this happening to me, stress about being set back financially, who knows what else I am not thinking of right now. But if you roll it all up and call it divorce, yes it's terrifying. It all flashes before my eyes and W knows it. And she needs to not know it or nothing will change. And by that I mean, I need to be no longer terrified. Just like Opie.
You wrote about the bashing on my W and it's affect on me. This is something I have struggled with since joining here last year. It is a touchy thing for me because realizing you may have been manipulated, or trusted someone you shouldn't, or your own W is not who you thought she was, has the power to touch one's self esteem, self confidence, self trust. And that is a deep thing. It is very painful for me to think about, perhaps I cannot even fully articulate why. It is a constant struggle for me to reconcile the things I read here with a holistic reality. Obviously, you do not know my W. The only things you know about her have been written by someone that isn't her (me). So whatever image you have in you mind of who she is, surely is not totally accurate. It just isn't possible. How accurate it is I have no idea. A lot of us search for reasons for our WW's behavior. Past trauma, mental illness, MLC, you have heard them all. For me, at least, this is because I do not believe people are "bad" or do bad things for no reason. And I certainly don't want to believe that if there are such bad people, that I married one. I guess what I'm trying to say is, similar to how you came back and said you would rather say you don't like my W's ways than HER, it's hard to let go of W for her ways when they don't match who I think she really is (I realize there is a disconnect here).
Just trying to explain the LBH perspective, I think of it kind of like rebellious teenagers who act out. You know it's because they are hurting, having trouble at home, etc, all the stereotypical reasons. They may require tough love, but you don't give up on them. You don't stop loving them. Maybe for me to stop loving my W, I feel like I must feel she is a bad person. Otherwise I just can't. This is what I meant when I said I don't want to give up on her. The thing about my W, that is very hard for me to wrap my head around, is that she seems to have two value systems. It's as if she knows what she should value highly, but she doesn't. But if you know something's value is high, how do you value it low? It is a very tricky thing. But that dissonance is her disease. She knows the "right" way to live, how to be financially responsible, what career and education moves would be best, what kind of person is ideal to marry, etc. She is not dumb. And she wants all those things, which I think is the part of her that is attracted to me, because I check all those "look good" boxes. I am an attractive, educated, "set-up-for-success" guy that is easy to show off at parties or meet your mom. And she comes from a background, unlike me, where finding someone like that might not have been the most likely outcome. I hope I am not coming off like some arrogant a$$hole here, it is not at all my intention. I'm just trying to illustrate her internal conflict. She wants to make good choices and have the kind of life that comes with that, but then there is this other half of her that throws it all away. She wants to want it, but she doesn't. Instead, she would rather go throw away all her disposable money at the casino, have stupids flings with 19 year olds, and go out drinking with people throwing away their paychecks at the casino right alongside her.
This is part of the problem. It is easy for you guys reading here to see the black and white, and say no doubt about it she has a gambling problem ,etc. I am not saying I don't agree, but it is not as black and white as it may appear at first. Half of her immediate circle coworkers are VIPs at the casino (I am not exaggerating here). For reference, she has only attained like two levels below that. She does not spend money that is not disposable. And all around her, this is "normal" behavior. Do they all have problems? Probably. It certainly is not financially responsible, whether or not we can call it a disease. And being married to someone like me, she has to constantly feel like I'm judging her or controlling her and ruining her fun if she wants to participate. I don't tell her what she can or can't do with the money she earns, nor do I berate her about her decisions, but I am not going to lie and say great idea! Pull $500 more out and keep going! She knows I don't approve, ultimately because she knows it's WRONG. Maybe not morally in this case, but you get the idea. She seems to constantly want to do things that she knows aren't the right thing and it tortures her. It's like she tries to hold the dam, but it routinely fails and she falls off her internal value wagon. And I am left with someone who I thought was a partner on all these things, suddenly go into rebellion. I realize it's not truly sudden, because she has been struggling against the dam the whole time. The waywardness is always there. But I get it, I cannot chase her back into the fire and get burned myself.
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She didn't see that his attention was a loving gift. She took and took and wouldn't give back.
This is extremely helpful for me. To think of it this way. It helps me value myself and see the situation more clearly. You described the issue PERFECTLY.
When I asked how do I take the lead, I meant specifically in this instance regarding the plan for divorce. W says I am not initiating, but that is because I am not going to be the one to D. It isn't me that wants it.
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You asked what if your W just needed help. Well, let me ask a question in return. What do you think it would take for her to seek psychiatric therapy that dealt with whatever she claims happened in her childhood? I'll ask an easier one..What do you think it would take for her to stop her bullying/controlling behavior?
Honestly, it doesn't feel like it would take an impossible miracle to get her to go. Just a moment where she comes to her senses, realizes there is a very smooth option available to her (that she only has because she has a spouse, btw), and actually wants help. She is very conflicted in general, as discussed above, and some days would fight tooth and nail the idea of getting help and others feel desperate and consider it, from my observation anyway. I am trying to figure out how to tell her she can go to therapy on her own under my care plan and it will not go on her record (her big fear due to military career). I was not aware of this. I also thought MC would cost money. It turns out that it is ALL covered. She can go see the therapist on her own as IC and it fits under the umbrella of family counseling for insurance purposes, in this case MY counseling. That would be an important point to her and I have already done the work of finding the therapist. It's all there if she were to just agree. But it feels like the wrong time to bring it up and like it would be applying pressure, even if I'm just honestly trying to let her know about a resource available to her.
I actually had a dream last night where everything changed when I finally stood up to her and treated all of her behavior for what it really is. I do think with my W she does not have any solid support to lean on in life and really needs someone who is not going to put up with her sh!t. I think she needs to get to a certain point before even that would be functional and I honestly have no idea how close she really is. But I know I could do way better at putting her in her place. The good thing is I feel more able to do so than I ever have yet. So I am really serious about becoming the guy no one would dare cheat on for fear of the consequences. Or mistreat, etc. Like how am I so far from that guy? I hate that. No more. I believe I can become him, but I also know I will need a lot of help. Which you have provided so much and I thank you for that. I know this community is the best place for me to work on becoming that guy.
I hope I touched on the all the important parts of what you wrote. I actually started writing this a few days ago, so I'm going to include a sitch update to follow and if it feels disjointed or like all my emotions changed in 15 min, that's why.
