Another case of WW

[sandi2]

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Here's my question to you- do you even want to be married to a serial cheater? Are you holding onto the hope that maybe she will change and stop this behavior? And what if she doesn't?

This is the first time that I've been confronted with this situation, so I don't have a clear cut answer yet. I flip flop on my thoughts on this daily. Since I've done my share of mistakes, I'd like us to both learn from our mistakes and have an opportunity to see if it is salvageable. I feel like up to this point, we never really truly communicated the underlying issues as with all MR with built up resentment.

Having said that, it's hard to have a fair chance with AP/OM and fog in the picture right now. Or maybe really there is no such thing as fog, and I'm just not wanting to hear the message. I'm constantly reminding myself of that possibility too.

When you say that first sentence, it reminds me of the ping-pong game. Are you in competition with OM and the prize is your WW? If you answer honestly, you may say that is how you feel. We want you to have a different mindset in how you see yourself, your life, your WW, & possible reconciliation. I would dare guess you have mainly thought about her and her feelings......her actions......your chances with her......and what it will take to get this great prize back into your arms again. We see it here on the board all the time, but what really bothers me is when you say, "Since I've done my share of mistakes, I'd like us to both learn from our mistakes and have an opportunity to see if it is salvageable". You are facing a different situation when dealing with a WW. It's not as if she made a mistake, or that she is justified b/c you were a lousy H. There is a right way and a wrong way, and if she wanted out of the MR......it would have been more respectable for her to get a D, before having an affair. There are many layers to this situation. I wish it were that simple where the two of you could agree to put the past behind you and work on the MR. Reconciliation of the M is possible. Absolutely! However, you won't have a successful reconciliation if you try to skip over the necessary healing from the betrayal, deceit, infidelity, etc. No matter how willing you may be to forgive her and move forward in the MR.......it does not heal either of you. You each will be faced with issues to tackle and you can only work on your own. Therefore, I'm suggesting you don't jump back into living under the same roof, at this time. There is no way this woman has made the necessary changes...........and I'm guessing that neither of you have much idea of what is necessary in moving forward. You need a plan of action, or you'll get sucker-punched every time you turn around. Unfortunately, there are no short cuts or magic formula to hurry this along. The best thing you can do to move things faster, is to learn as much as possible, and take what we say very seriously. You have to actually get serious about working on yourself before working on the MR.

IMHO, in order for you to have an effective plan of action, you need to know your own core values and know what you are willing to tolerate...... and what you won't take. In other words, what guides you through life? Where do you draw the line? When I read the above quote, I get the sense that you are not certain. I want to encourage you to take time to know yourself, first, before deciding to reconcile or divorce. Take this time to really think about your self respect, your belief system, your desires and personal goals in life. What type of man are you? Do you have high morals and/or religious standards by which you conduct life? Do you feel your integrity has been compromised......or could be compromised? Do you feel others respect you? Are you a leader or follower? Who called the shots at home? You don't have to give me any answers, but I hope you will focus on YOU and the things in life which are most important. Of course you feel the M is most important, and we will talk about all of that.......just please don't sweet this other work under the rug.

I think physical separation is often needed, in order to have clarity. Both the LBH and WW need the space/distance from one another. From what I have been able to tell, most WW's seem to be manipulative and will try to keep one foot in both worlds (marriage/affair). Even if divorce is on the table, in the back of her mind she sees you being a backup plan in her life. The WW sees the H being dumped, but she doesn't see him actually dumping her (and I'm sad to say my experience is to see most newcomers are scared to death their WW will see any action from the H that indicates he is done with her). For what it's worth, the WW doesn't want her position in your life to be replaced.
She doesn't want you, but she doesn't want anyone else having you. You'll see selfishness to the highest degree, b/c it is the motivation that drives a WW. In everything they do, they benefit emotionally, physically, financially, or else they aren't interested. Never forget this!

I really hope WW just wants to discuss how to move forward in any direction, and not playing games. I never thought of her as one to play games, but I guess if someone is to have an A, then they are clearly willing to play games...

She is already playing games by asking you to meet and talk. Most LBH's want to talk their way back into the MR, and it doesn't work when there's a third party. Yes, she will probably want to talk, but she wants to talk about......HER feelings, accomplishing nothing. Remember ping-pong, and you have to take yourself out of that dimension......or it goes on & on. Remove yourself from the drama. At the moment, you can't trust her. You can't believe her when she talks about going back home. She's throwing you bread crumbs. As long as some other guy is in her head, you will just be used for whatever benefits her. I think it takes a little time for most LBH's to actually see what I'm talking about. They have trouble believing their W would be so cold, calloused, manipulative and selfish. Well guess what? This is not the girl you married. She has changed. She may have to experience some really bad stuff before she decides to get help for her drinking problem, maybe childhood issues, etc. Even if she had none of these other problems, waywardness causes good women to act really, really horrible. But I want to make something very clear. Waywardness comes from free volition. It's not a mental illness, although some women may have a particular mental condition in addition.........but please don't look at her waywardness as if she couldn't it. She could!

I thought about this. I guess we both made so many mistakes in our relationship, and we finally hit rock bottom and finally now openly discussing our issues. I would like to have the opportunity to put forth our best selves, understanding that it may still not work out.

I hear you, but do hear what I've been saying? You want to discuss the issues with your WW, and even if it seems like you both feel a little better afterward, you will quickly discover the waywardness is still in charge. There will be a place & time for discussion about the M, but it's not now.

I like your second sentence of that quote. If you really mean you want the opportunity to put forth your best self.........then you will see your opportunity for developing your best self is NOW, while you are separated. See, I know you aren't buying all this self improvement stuff we are talking. I can tell when a newcomer is saying just enough to sound as if he's picking up the correct method/technique...........but he hasn't started applying any of that stuff. He wants a bullet point sheet with the how-to of getting his W back, and preferably, from the OM. There are things you need to heal, to develop, ect. Once she is back in the house, do you seriously believe the wonderful best side of you is going to come out and deal with all the cr@p fallout? No, it doesn't work that way. Oh, some may fake it for a little while, but when roots aren't long enough, something is going to crash. This is your opportunity to quietly work on yourself and put the MR on hold until she is willing to anything you want to reconcile. Yes, you heard me right.

Before I go, I want to address something else. You speak about your share of mistakes. Have you ever had an affair, or inappropriate behavior with anyone? I don't believe one spouse's actions justifies or equalizes infidelity in the other spouse. Most WW's want to pin the fault of her having an A on the betrayed H, however, at the end of the day we all are responsible for the sin we've done.

((hugs)) Continue to post and read. If you have questions about anything I have said, please ask me.