I cheated, we survived, now my wife's cheating

[JC08]

Would you fill in some time lines for us at the bottom of the page? List the ages of you & W; when your A started and ended; when W found out; when W asked you to leave; when she started her A, etc.

We are both 34. Together 16 years, married 11.

My Physical Affair started in October of 2017. I don't really know when I would say the emotional affair started but I would guess about June of 2017, before that summer it was just talking to her in the bank about business stuff, some personal stuff, like kids, vacations, wife, family, nothing negative.

Affair ended in October 2018, it was already dying but not dead until my wife found out. Yes I was still emotional connected though, I don't know why though because I wanted my marriage and wife, but still had strong attractions to the OW.

Her affair started in May 2019. The EA started shortly after she first met him in May and a few days later he started snap chatting. They had never talked before and he opened up with, "hey heard about his affair, are you guys doing okay. I couldn't believe he would do that to you, I know how much pain that causes".

She told me on July 26th that when we got home from vacation that we needed to separate, that she needed some space. Said it was just separation, not evening thinking about divorce and had nothing to do with OM. Stayed at my parents July 31st, She went to OM's house on August 1st. Actually when I was there on August 1st getting kids that evening the OM started to pull in driveway until he seen me, clearly he knew I was out.

I want to make sure I understand your sitch, so please bear with me as I go back over some things you've posted.

So we started to text more and she tried to flirt with me a few times, but I actually shut that down, told her it made me uncomfortable because I was married. I should have said I wasn’t going to talk to her anymore at that point, but I had never dated anyone but my wife and getting attention from a woman 9 years younger than me made me feel pretty good, I guess.

What happened that caused you to change your mind about OW's flirtatious texting? I mean, things progressed to a PA, so you must have changed your mind about it.

We text back and forth quite a bit, but nothing really sexy or overly flirty, she backed way off on flirty text after I said something the one time. Talked about how much she enjoyed having a friend she could talk about things with, and appreciated my feedback. Then one night my wife and I got into a big argument because she threw a fit about me going to a football game with a friend, even though she had went out and had drinks with a girlfriend the previous Friday night. I didn't go then stewed and left the house because I was mad and tired of arguing over it. sent a snapchat to the OW about how bad my wife was pissing me off and had to get out of the house, drink a few beers and calm down. She asked if I wanted to talk about it, said yes I did, she said she would come cruise around and listen to me. She did, I complained, she validated everything I said, then we drove around talked and had fun. When I got home, my wife apologized, and wanted to talk, and I was thinking about how unhappy she made me and how I hadn't had so much fun since I could remember. From there I started thinking differently about the OW. She instantly started telling me how she had never had so much fun, and how she could be herself around me, how she never felt so attracted to anyone, ect. Then a few days later she told me I know nothing will ever happen between us, I had made that clear, but since that night we rode around she couldn't stop thinking about kissing me. I had told her the only person I had ever kissed was my wife, then she went on and on about how that have ever happened, wasn't I curious, and so on. She then asked if she could kiss me, just once. I told her no that couldn't happen, she played the I'm sorry I never should have said that, you probably think I'm horrible, I should stop talking to you, I'm going to stop talking to you. I told her it was okay, I didn't think bad of her, that I was curious about it to, but I just couldn't. She then started justifying that it was just a kiss, no big deal, and I stupidly after a week of that said I wanted to kiss her. After that happened then she told me how she had never felt that way after a kiss, that she shouldn't have kissed me, because now she wanted more, and she knew that would never happen, pretty much the same story over and over. I got that first taste of that high, was distancing myself from my wife, and then it turned into a full blown physical affair. I was just weak and dumb, absolutely no justification in my actions.

Now looking back I completely believe I fell into limerence.

Do you see limerence something beyond your own volition?

Absolutely not, I was not in limerence when everything started. I didn't guard my heart or listen to my conscience when things changed to being inappropriate. The flirting and stuff was fun, made me feel good about myself. I mean here I was a 32 year old dad of four kids, slightly overweight, fairly low self confidence about my own looks because I never had much attention from girls and married my first girlfriend(which I was happy to do so at the time), and here is a 23 year old girl paying me a bunch of attention. It made me feel pretty good about myself, so I let it continue, then I let it get out of hand, and that is no ones fault but mine, I'm not throwing the blame on some psychological term, the blame falls squarely on my shoulders. I didn't think it would get that far when it was in the beginning, I never imagined that one it would transpire the way it did and two that she had any real interest, I just thought she liked the attention and compliments. I mean she was going out to bars and what not, I didn't have jealously about that, she would be out and stuff and wouldn't text me, it didn't bother me, I wasn't invested like that, it was just nice having the attention, I figured she would soon enough find something more entertaining and she would stop texting me. I knew right from wrong, I knew how guilty I felt, it was just pure selfishness on my part.

Once the full blown PA started and we already had that emotional connection, then I do feel like I fell into limerence, and I could checkmark every box of the signs you are in limerence. But I got there on my own, there was plenty of things I did wrong before getting there, and I knew them before I got deep enough to get to that state.

Now this next quote is where I start to get confused:

Then after about a year I started coming out of the fog, I started seeing how much my wife loved me, how manipulating, selfish, and controlling this other woman was, and me and my wife started spending more time together, even going out with friends and having date nights. Mind you my wife knows I am not happy in the marriage but has no idea I am having an affair.

Which came first..........you coming out of the fog; seeing how much your W loved you; or seeing OW's faults?
Did you start spending more time with your W after you were able to see how much she loved you? However, you continued the A, until you got caught when OW was blowing your phone?

I was starting to see the OW faults, we had had several "breakups", she would draw a line in the sand per se, like if you don't call a lawyer and file for divorce next week then I'm done. I wouldn't she'd blow up, that we were done, I felt like I had escaped, then a day later or even the same day, shed call or text. She would say Im pushing you too hard and you need to work through this at your own pace and I am just being selfish. This happened multiple times, as besides continuing the affair I took no steps towards leaving my wife. I never called a lawyer, I never looked for a house, I would tell my wife that I thought we should separate, but then never carried forward with it. At one point in September or so, right before my wife found out, the OW text me one day and said she loved me, but she was letting me go. She said it was obvious I wasn't leaving my wife, and she felt like there was more distance between us, sex had slowed down, I was making excuses not to see her. She felt like I had said enough times I wanted out and that she had to convince me to stay, that clearly I wanted out, because I had changed very little of my life. I think I sent ok, or I didn't even respond. Regardless later that day or maybe the next she sent that she wanted to still be friends. She talked about her little boy some, I talked about something my girls had done, but the tone definitely changed between us. Because I did have feeling for her I thought this was good, like I wasn't shutting her out, I was keeping her somewhat content, she had threatened telling my wife one time we broke up, So I thought this was good. She knew we were done but she didn't want to burn me at the stake and expose everything. No surprise to you guys, that doesn't happen, she started making comments like, I know we are not going to end up together but can we have sex one more time. I had already started spending more time with my wife again, we were starting to have fun, I was starting to remember all the things I loved about her. So things were improving with her and I was starting to see the faults with the OW and the reality of that path if I would have left my wife. But yes at that point, even though I was seeing faults and coming out of the Fog I was still pretty attached to her.

I didn’t want to be this person anymore. But she always found a way back in and I truthfully believe it had to do with me being in limerence and telling myself that I would never would have had an affair unless this woman was my “soulmate”.

First of all, forget all that stuff about finding your "soulmate". It has been used for many M breakups. People have this idea that a soulmate aligns perfectly with themselves and there is never any issues to work on b/c they are so perfectly matched. Secondly, limerence is not an excuse for engaging in an affair. The more you tell yourself that you "fell" into a state of limerence and that you could have never, consciously, do such a thing to your W.........unless this OW was truly your preordained soulmate, the more you deceive yourself. You are trying to find justification for your conduct, and there is none. Limerece or finding one's soulmate doesn't remove your volition. It is extremely important to take full ownership of your actions. Don't place blame on the OW, limerence, soulmate, depression, etc.

I did at one time, that was only when I was in the affair and trying to justify my actions to myself. I do not believe in soulmates, I never have, except during my affair as a self justification for my actions, I know its not a justification, just another crappy excuse to make myself feel better. It used to even hurt my wife's feelings when she said something about us being soulmates and I would tell her I didn't believe that, that there nothing perfect out there and we had to work on our relationship all the time, and I didn't think there was a relationship out there that wasn't lots of work. She told me that she thought this OM could be her soulmates but I wouldn't understand that because I didn't believe in them. I agree that there is zero excuses, I guess im not trying to use it as an excuse or justification, but more of somehow explain to myself how I could ever do this, I just never thought I would do this, I never wanted to believe I could be that person, I had always judged anyone I had heard about so harshly for doing it. But yes it was just my own stupidly, selfishness and weakness and I broke my own morals and did this terrible thing to my wife and children. There is no excuse, zero, I agree with that. I knew it was wrong, I tried getting out and was too weak at the time to follow through.

So, I text the other woman in front of my wife told her done, over, I love my wife, ect. I then blocked her, and deleted every form of communication. Then came months of talking, I admit I had a hard time letting go, and I was depressed. I had never broken up with someone, and at that point I thought I loved her, but I also knew I loved my wife and kids.

Good, you did the right thing. I totally get having a hard time afterwards. Who were you talking to for months.......your W or the OW? Affairs have a very addictive nature. I'm really surprised that you got over it in only 3-4 months............considering OW works in the same building. Do you see her at a distance?

Talking to my wife for months, I took the blame for everything when it came out. She would say things like if I was a better wife you wouldn't have cheated, I failed you, I had to be so bad to you or you never would have done this; every time she would do this I would tell her that I took full blame, that it had nothing to do with her, that it was my fault. She asked lots of question, about everything, I told her everything she asked. I didn't want it to look like I was hiding something or not fully disclosing everything.

I wouldn't say I was over her, but I was sure that I wanted my marriage and my wife. The OW also got pretty hateful at times at work and that made it easier. I think my wife picked up on that it still bothered me and I was depressed over her, I kept reassuring her that I wanted her, my family, and our marriage. I thought I was hiding that I was having issues but my wife knew something was up. The good thing was me and my wife were spending tons of fun times together. We where out enjoying life, we were planning a trip for March, the OW started dating a guy, it bothered me, she rubbed it in my face a couple of times, telling me how much better a man he was than me, it bothered me, and I didn't know why? Because I really was happy, my wife told me she could see me coming back into the person I was, doing projects around the house and farm, getting more happiness back, enjoying the kids more, ect. Which was the way I felt, but yes there was still something there for the OW and I didn't want it to be. Yes I still had daily interactions with her, and for a long time the OW went between telling me I was a POS to telling me she still wanted me and would wait forever to have me, no I'm not making that up....

After the affair ended and everything came out about that affair with my wife, I asked her about switching jobs. She said I didn't need to do that.

This makes no sense to me. Are you saying that after you learned about your W's affair, then you asked her if you should switch jobs? It was after you learned about her affair that you started a transparency plan?

No, I wasn't being clear there. I started the transparency plan right after my affair came out. I did everything she asked, she knew I use to go to the OW house over lunch so I talked everyday during lunch, turned on tracker so she could see where I was at, no passwords on phone, everything. I asked about my job when my affair came out. My wife said no, that she believed in my sorrow, and that we could get through it. I'm a banker and like I said we are in a rural area, I have a non-compete, so it would be though for me to leave and find employment in the same field or I would have to drive an hour to work. I did asked to be transferred to another location but there was nothing available

I think her anger toward you not staying to talk, had more to do with being left alone to deal with all the kids

That's one thing, she has yet to be alone, completely alone since we separated. She either has the kids, or she is with him. So she hasn't really dealt with being alone yet.

Let me say it this way. I think her anger was less to do about you not staying to talk......and more to do about her having to take care of four kids on her own, without your help.