Steve, sorry I've been MIA the past couple of days. I've had your sitch on my heart and have been in prayer about it. Not that ending a marriage is easy for anyone, but I think your spiritual commitments makes it very difficult to simply say, "That's it, I'm outta here". In other words, your identity is enmeshed with your religious beliefs and your position in your local congregation. I think you & W have good reputations and influence as Christians among your friends, community, and church. I may be wrong here, but I think you consider how a D would not only affect your child, but the church members who see you as an example/leader. You don't want to disappoint them or cause a weaker member to lose hope in their own life. Although I wore different shoes, I just want you to know that I empathize with you considering all the areas of your life that would be affected if your M ended. ((((hugs))))
Being the man that you are, I feel you wanted to fix the marital problems by fixing yourself......and you worked very hard on your 180's. The board encourages members to focus on themselves and fix the one person they control……which, of course, is himself. To be deeply honest, I felt you tried to take on her part of the responsibility, or else you thought the backslide was due to your work or lack thereof. Throughout your threads, you would make statements that implied (to me) that if she slipped, it would be your fault. You had to work harder & harder, which placed took a toll on you physically and emotionally. Perhaps subconsciously you were trying to do her work, too. That’s understandable, but each spouse has their separate work to do. As a “reformed” WW, I will say that she needs to get her heart right with God, first. She can look the part of a Christian wife and hard working church member, but only God knows her heart and what goes on in secret.
When you two went to the retreat and she really struggled with the religious part near the end, it appeared (to me) that she had some spiritual rebellion toward the Christian life, the scripture, or God. As you know, waywardness is based on lack of respect, resentment, and rebellion. These feelings can be held in the heart for a long time, and some people can play the part of a loving spouse or active church member……….but their heart does not match up with their secret desires or fantasy. IMHO, a big part of the WW’s work is coming to terms with God, seeking His forgiveness, experiencing true humility and remorse. Forgiving her H for everything in the previous years, and humbly apologizing to him for the pain she has caused him and the trust she has destroyed.
There needs to be a plan implemented for the WW. And let me make something perfectly clear. This is about her betrayal of trust……..not the H. Some H’s rush to give over his passwords, and be transparent with his phone, etc. I don’t agree with that move at this point, b/c this can easily put him on the same level as the betrayer, and this should be about the WW’s accountability. She is the one who broke his trust, and she needs to atone for it. She will need to be transparent until she has completely gone through withdrawals and has no desire/temptation to resume former behavior patterns.
As part of the reconciliation agreement, the WW should be given the opportunity to agree that her H can look at her messages/activity anytime he chooses. It is an agreement she makes that has no time line. If she balks, cries freedom of privacy, etc., then she’s still planning to be deceitful. This is her opportunity to show her H that she is being honest and faithful in her activities. Therefore, the H can look at her computer/phone activity two years, or more, down the road, just to make sure she is not slipping. She should not know when he’s going to check. At first, she will be on her toes, and if/when she backslides, she’ll delete everything. But eventually, she’ll get careless b/c she thinks he isn’t checking. Bottom line about transparency is this: If she really wants to redeem herself, then she will do whatever work necessary to save her M.
Steve, when you first joined the board, you were concerned that your W was being influenced by the anti-depressant meds her doctor continued to prescribe. I am used to seeing newcomers blame wayward behavior on everything from MLC to a personality disorder. Anyway, I have recently read how many people are reporting that their spouse no longer feels in love with them, and that their spouse has been on anti-depressants long term. Ironically, I was taking Zoloft at the time I went through my period of craziness. However, I had not been taking it long term. I was depressed, and seeing several doctors trying to get help for Fibromyalgia. One doctor had me on four medications included anti-depressants. Then the next doctor took me off all of it---cold turkey. This has been known to cause suicide in people! So, needless to say, I was a mess! I would not blame my EA on the medication, b/c I felt that was a cheap excuse to not take ownership for my actions. I have talked to a couple of women IRL who were on Zoloft and admitted it killed their sex drive. I think that’s the most common complaint I’ve heard and read about, was no interest in sex.
I went to a hormone balancing specialist and he told me the test showed I was a train wreck. My sex hormones flat lined, according to him. I hadn’t been on Zoloft for quite some time, but was still taking AD’s. I still maintain my belief in how waywardness begins in the mind, and finally acts out. I had stored a lot of resentment and lack of respect long before I took medication. In my case, the way the doctors jerked me back & forth, going from 4 AD’s to zero with no weaning period probably affected my emotional frame of mind. I had never experienced panic attacks until I went through all the prescription changes. I still don’t think it had a direct influence on me having an EA. It may have compounded some of my feelings, IDK, but I still made decisions from a free volition.
I wish your W would see another doctor, maybe a hormone balancing specialist and/or a psychiatrist. Even if she slowly weaned off Zoloft, it needs to be under a doctor’s care. I think your W has intimacy issues or something that traces back to her childhood experiences or FOO. With her going from zero to 100 and back to nearly zero in the bedroom, it sounds as if her hormones could be in a mess (or she was faking). However, I maintain that a woman’s mind determines a lot of her sex drive. The W needs emotional intimacy more than the physical (IMHO). Another reason for therapy is to understand/address why she has such a strong need for attention/admiration/flirtation/sexting from a man who is not her H. She needs to see the snares and how to overcome this weakness in her life. She probably sees it as a "need", but it is going to destroy the MR, if it is not resolved.
Anyway, this time around needs to be a little different, don’t you agree? IMHO, you were trying to satisfy her appetite and maybe keep her distracted with the new home. However, she is not fulfilled being a homemaker. She wants to sing. She wants her talent to be recognized and admired. What type of songs is she singing on the app? Church hymns, country, pop? I think her fantasy is pretending she is a famous singer with fans who adore her. She is isolating herself more & more from her real world and escaping into her fantasy. The OM is not the problem. She doesn't care about him. She just wants the adoration for her talent. This singing app provides that feedback for her, but just like the gaming, it provides other things, also.
You said something about being afraid of taking the singing app away from her b/c she has given up so much already. I'd say that is a good reason for her to be therapy. And, I would add more about your concern here, but I've already written a book, so I'm going to close for now. I hope you won't stay away from the board too long. Maybe cut back a little, but we want to hear how things are going for you. Okay?
(((hugs)))
Oh my goodness......Sandi I do know how you do it. I am humbled and amazed. Your insight is keen. Your understanding of the intricacies of what is going on so astute.
Everything you said about our standing in the church is 100% true. But to be honest I would be willing to give all that up, I truly just want to be able to trust my W. I think our standing in the church is more important to her. I think it tickles the same need for adoration and recognition as the singing and the male attention. A year and a half ago, when I told her, "Okay, let's do this. I'll stop teaching Bible School, I will let people know that we are splitting up." she hedged immediately. She was in tears not wanting to give up her Bible School class. Every time something like that would come up, she would back down and start second guessing.
You're also right that I took the weight of the marriage onto my own shoulders. I bought into the DBing works logic. And I thought the harder I DB'd the higher the percentage chance of saving my marriage. And then it started turning around. I mean yeah I wasn't perfect, but I double-downed on GAL, detaching, and 180s.........not to be bragging, but better than anyone I've ever heard of, including this board! I am sure there are others that did it better, but boy did I work hard. I was always on. ALWAYS. And I think that is why last Dec. I had the pangs of just BDing her as the anniversary of our BD approached. I started to feel how it felt to be the wayard......the walkaway. Ironically, while I was worn out from being constantly on, I had to work even harder to get through that period last Dec! Amazing how things work.
As I said in my last update, she has agreed to full transparency. That is a 180 for her from a year and a half ago. I am going to continue to encourage her to see a psychiatrist. Our MC last year suggested it, and gave a referral, but that referred psychiatrist wasn't accepting new patients. As I said, follow-through can be an issue for my W, so as soon as she hit that roadblock she stopped. I agree with everything you said about her. From her rough childhood, to her depression issues, to her not being able to be content. When things have gone the best for us, she always seems to find a way to try to self-destruct it. As if she can't believe her life can be that good.
I will try to answer all you questions:
Anyway, this time around needs to be a little different, don’t you agree? YES! This time is so different in so many ways. This one is all on her. I need to sit back and let her do the work this time.
What type of songs is she singing on the app? Church hymns, country, pop? Yes to all of those, and even some rock. Though her primary genre is pop and country. Funny though, I did notice her gravitating away from the church hymns a little more recently, and more towards the country and pop. When she was wayward last year she NEVER sang church hymns. After we recovered she made them a pretty sizable part of her repertoire.
Okay? I am not going anywhere. I owe this forum so much!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
