Hoosjim's back... and maybe his WW, too (?)

[hoosjim]

I'm relieved to hear the conversation went well and that you feel better about her.

It does seem to match with what Artista was saying about herself.

Thanks, Sandi.... Yes, i really do feel that that is it-- she just screwed up, made a bad decision, whatever, and then feared coming forward about it and thought/hoped it would just blow over. She knows, and the episode was probably good, in a way, even though it caused some short-term damage, because it got us talking again about more fundamental aspects of the MR which we hadn't done alot of lately because "things were so good"... but i think it IS good for a married couple to examine hard issues and talk about those sorts of things from time to time, even when things ARE good.

over-laughing at his unfunny jokes,

Hey! My jokes are quite funny, thank you!

I mean, to us it is so obvious when the OW is making eyes at him, even watching him when OW thinks he isn't noticing, flirting, touching his arm, over-laughing at his unfunny jokes, complementing, or whatever. When the H acts as if he is dense and doesn't see what OW is really doing.......and laughs at us if we bring it to his attention.......it makes us angry. If we say something to him about the OW's behavior, and he accuses us of over reacting, feeling jealous or imagining it............then it makes us angry. And, if he just eats up the OW's attention.......and afterwards, talk about how "nice" she is..........it makes us angry.

Yeah... <sigh>... I figured. Unfortunate situation. Now, i have not laughed at my W's take or accused her of overreacting or otherwise denied/refuted/invalidated my W's read on the situation. In fact, if you'll recall, after what i interpreted as the veiled overture from lovely bartender a few months back, I shared it with my W... though i was reluctant to do so... didn't want to be throwing accusations or causing hard feelings where none were warranted. (Though W has been convinced this chick has had her eye on my ever since W first showed up there during the bad old WW days when i was off on my own a bit and W used to drop by that bar from time to time to meet me and commented that this gal was intentionally ignoring me/us when W was around-- and honestly at that point in time i thought it couldn't hurt the dynamic with my W for W to think other women were interested in me). However, there were other possible interpretations to that overture from bartender (though, as I have said, i usually have a pretty good read on people and their intentions and a pretty good track record of knowing what people are after-- and, yes, even WRT potentially interested women and even though i am a man) and I have not seen anything since that time that would qualify as such, though this girl does continue to be friendly, chatty, comps me drinks on a regular basis (though i tip well as a customer and if i had a dollar for every time a female bartender had comped me a drink I'd be a rich man) and, yes, will sometimes touch me on the shoulder when she comes up from time to time-- but nothing i would consider out of line for a bartender with whom I am friendly and a regular customer. She did once, a couple weeks back, recommended another bar to me that i have since found out she herself has gone to (which recommendation i also shared with W and we actually went on Saturday), but there was never any invitation to meet or the like. If she is still making a play for me she is being extremely subtle about it. But, like I said, I have acknowledged in talking with my W that it (bartender interest in me) is possible and that I value her (W's) feelings on the subject, to which W has replied "I like the place, too, and I think we can keep going there." (It is a very unique place around here in terms of food, outdoor ambience, and live music-- an excellent and fun date spot).

For my own part, I have been upfront with W that, when she and i were on the outs, I would "flirt" with this bartender from time to time (but very lightly and playfully, in the way that many men will flirt with female bartenders and not in a "coming-on-to-you" kind of way) and, in fact, that I would often flirt with other women in the same fashion. Not that i was looking for anything per se at that point in time-- i still had hopes to save my marriage-- but engaging in that type of banter was fun, and liberating and, at the time, seemed harmless enough. And I have also told W that, had an opportunity with this bartender or another attractive OW come up during those couple of weeks that I walked out I cannot say for sure that i would not have taken it-- that that's how "done" I was with her and the MR...

But

that no such opportunity arose, despite my being at that bar without my ring on, for several nights. (Bartender was out of the country on a medical mission for her degree those two weeks-- interesting coincidence.) I have told W, and I remain absolutely convinced, that God was watching out for us and for our MR, and wasn't going to let me get into any tempting situations during that delicate period. And I have also been clear with my W that she is who I want and she is who I have chosen (and also make sure to point out to her all of the things I love about her and how we have so much fun together, etc etc.). I always tell her: "You know where my heart is."

And, if he just eats up the OW's attention.......and afterwards, talk about how "nice" she is..........it makes us angry. And, don't even think of flirting back with that hussy.

And I don't do any of that... at least not anymore. But... I do think it's unfortunate, and I do think that that evaluation of this girl may be a bit harsh. If/when she did become interested in me, I was arguably fair game-- not wearing a ring, frequenting this bar on my own, returning friendly attention... and I didn't make any secret of the fact even after my WW showed up once or twice that we were on the rocks. While never discussed it directly with this particular bartender, i didn't make a secret of it. One of the other bartenders (also a girl) once asked me "what's the deal with you two (meaning me and W).. sometimes i think you two are married and sometimes maybe dating and sometimes nothing, and you never say one way or the other", (If you'll recall W and i weren't at all snuggly or intimate or touchy-feely at that point) to which my response at the time was "Well, legally speaking, we're husband and wife... but as a practical matter we're just friends... and everything else between those two right now we're just kind of trying to figure out." So, it's quite possible, even probable, that our lovely "hussy" bartendress thought W and i were basically done at that point and that i was fair game. So, yeah, maybe she's interested, but I sure didn't do anything to dissuade her during the formative period of our acquaintance, and, to be honest, I do like her as a person... she's sunny, friendly, likes helping people... seems like a very nice girl. (Though I am careful to never point this out to my W) And, while I've several times told my W, half-jokingly: "Tall brunette, not my type" (which is generally true-- my W is a petite blonde as have been almost all of my relationships), under other circumstances and given maybe ten years less of age difference she's someone i could see myself being interested in-- as I believe i mentioned above she is, in terms of temperament and personality and background and interests very, very much like my W. And once her bartending days are done... likely within a couple of months.. she will be working in the same field as my W... in fact it is not at all unlikely that she would at some point interview with the clinic at which my W works, which is one of the largest and best known in the area and region, and also not at all unlikely that we will run into her socially or professionally in the future. So... someone we in other circumstances could have had a productive friendship with, even helped along the way with our contacts and connections and experience (which this girl might need-- she's said she feels very lost/directionless in the job/career search area right now-- also frighteningly similar to my W at a similar age)... but obviously not now. And I feel somewhat responsible for that.

Anyway... seems like we have a good handle on things here, now, and i appreciate all y'all's input.. As always, your help and support and insight has been invaluable.

Last note for anyone reading my thread... My own PSA for today: I cannot overstate how important it is to DATE YOUR SPOUSE. Go out! Have Fun! Find new exciting things to do! Be each others' best friend. So many couples these days make heroic efforts to "put the kids first", and so many others get lost in self-entertainment or social media, and still others hyper focus on career. Your MR is the single most important relationship in your life... and DOUBLY so (not LESS so) if you have kids. The best gift you can give your children is a hot marriage... wish my W and i had known this sooner...