Hoosjim's back... and maybe his WW, too (?)

[sandi2]

I went to the dictionary to make sure I was using the correct spelling and form of "conscience". Maybe it's due to the subject matter in our previous posts, but I found the definition matching up with that subject.

"The concept of conscience, as commonly used in its moral sense, is the inherent ability of every healthy human being to perceive what is right and what is wrong and, on the strength of this perception, to control, monitor, evaluate and execute their actions. Such values as right or wrong, good or evil, just or unjust, and fair or unfair have existed throughout human history but are also shaped by an individual’s cultural, political and economic environment. The closer our inner state of conscience identifies with the higher perception of these concepts, such as good, right, just, and fair, the higher our degree of “conscience", and less physical stress is experienced if we feel that we act according to these concepts."

She repeated again that she was going to tell me but just couldn't find the right time,


To which her response was "I don't really think you would have been "okay" with it ahead of time".

IMHO, your RWW (recovering WW) knew you would not be okay before she decided to go to that bar. (BTW, thanks for the clarification in the two bars.) Call it intuition, instincts, smarts, conscience, or whatever.......she knew better. She knew how you truly feel about her BFF's influence. Yet, she willingly went along with the group. And, whenever a woman says she was going to tell you but just couldn't find the right time........I call it b.s. I think she was playing with time, hoping that the subject never had to come up. However, when you pulled back and was cool to her for a few days, she ran out of time. Did she have a guilty conscience based on her moral/spiritual values? Was she disappointed in herself (and don't be surprised to hear her use this one), considering she had worked hard the past few months to build trust back into the MR..........and then carelessly through it away? I don't like how she grabs onto the line "I thought we were past this". She may have wanted YOU to get to the place that it didn't bother you if she returned to some former conduct whenever going out with BFF..........but she knew you wouldn't be too happy, and that's why she didn't bring it up before she went.

You had previously wondered if she didn't care about your feelings and the pain it caused you. It's like WW's have a teenager's brain. They don't think it through to the end and the consequences it might cause. They think they can hang out with the wrong people and not be pulled into wrong actions. She knew there was a chance you wouldn't like it if she asked beforehand, so she just didn't say anything. To me, that is an action. It says it was more important to her to go along with her friends, than to be open with you about what was really going on that night (when her phone went dead, etc.). If she was innocent of any inappropriate conduct, all she had to do was tell you what happened. Instead, she chose to conceal as best she could.

So, what happened between the last time she went out with her BFF and this time? Maybe nothing. Like I said, I have to wonder if she thinks that in time she will be able to go out with those women and it not lead to something inappropriate? IMHO, she can't fall back into those old behavior patterns and expect different outcomes. The first time meeting with BFF, she did all the things she could to secure your feelings. But the more frequently she's around her, I think her resolve weakens.

Neither me nor my W have been to OM's bar since the A ended and we reconciled, though we had discussed going there together as a "take back", and I have come close to ordering out for wings from there and going to pick them up, and have told W so, though had not yet done so.

I think I expressed my views about this in the past, but why would you do that? I know, someone IRL suggested, but it seems crazy. Don't play with that sort of stuff. Stay away from negative influences, even when your MR is strong.

Hadn't really resonated with me until then, but i realized that's exactly what happened with my W and OM-- letting someone of the opposite sex get too close. So, now, I don't go there except with W and, preferably, a whole group of friends, ideally other couples.

I'm really glad to hear that!

She also had not been pining after bff. As I mentioned, she had had a "Trial visit" about three months ago with one other girl (whom I basically trust) and she showed exemplary behavior-- constantly texting me, letting me know what they were doing and where they were (i double checked all of this last week after the recent incident), didn't get drunk, and came home early and made a date for us even though the other two wanted her to stay. She continues to show me the kind of respect and affection that she almost never did before, and all seemed well. Really a head scratcher why she did this, and i hope it wasn't a "thrill" that she'll want to repeat.

She can't let down her guard. Have you discussed and agreed to certain ground rules to observe, as a means of shielding your MR from the things that lead to mistrust, suspicion, and inappropriate conduct? I mean, this could be an opportunity for the two of you to form a plan that protects your relationship from affairs. I'm not saying there is an affair proof plan, but thinking it won't ever happen to you is a snare that catches many couples unaware. I am not going to temp the strength of my MR by contacting someone on a dating site. I'm going nowhere around something of that nature. I'm not going to engage in online games, although I feel like it wouldn't bother me..........why would I temp it? I'm not going online to take back anything. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses, and you have to make some choices in your life and stay away from particular influences. If you run with the hogs, the slop starts looking okay to have for a snack.......or meal.

i know that prople come to God in different ways, and that that way works very well for some people... its just that i have moved past it and have found answers and opportunities i didn't have before at this new place. At any rate... I'd get involved with her at the RC church, too... but just doesn't seem like there are the same opportunities and DEFINITELY not the same level of energy in the congregation. I'd really be open to suggestions, here... and she and i have never been that great about openly discussing our faiths or even praying together outside of church. She tends to be pretty private about it, and has noted on several occasions that she is extremely uncomfortable, even borderline resentful at times at the ease with which evangelicals call out to and converse with God, particularly during extemporaneous prayer, "like it comes so natural and i just don't know how to do that".

It's a touchy situation for many people. It can feel very uncomfortable when you visit a congregation who worships in a style that's different than your own. And, let's be real here........some people in some congregations can get a little aggressive with newcomers, wanting them to join. Do you feel weird openly discussing your faith together, or is it mostly your W who feels uncomfortable? I don't understand why she would resent it, unless she felt someone was trying to force her to believe or practice in a way she's doesn't welcome. If that's the case, I would resent it, also. IDK, but based on past discussions with you, your W seems to tie religion to guilt, so she might see you as trying to use faith-based beliefs as a way of controlling.