Persistent Endurance (Part 5)

[curtis7]

I’m going to give Rville some more thought, I may call the 800 number in the next couple days to ask some questions on what they recommend / policies on a spouse that has been or still is involved in an affair.

I called the Retrouvaille folks a couple days ago and discussed the program in greater detail. They did confirm that it doesn't work if one S is still actively involved with APs. They also stated that a commitment needs to be made to attend both the weekend and all 6 post sessions. Again, they stated the program doesn't work if the post sessions aren't attended as well. The phone interview is usually conducted shortly before the actual event, but they offered to call sooner to get the active affair question out there.

IMO, the conversation about her infidelity will be a difficult one no matter how you approach it. She doesn't know that you know all the details that you do. Once she finds out, she will take it extremely hard. I don't know what her response will be, but I'm 100% sure It won't be what you expect. Especially if she believes you only know certain things.

If you get to Rville and her infidelity is disclosed, she might feel attacked. It's my advice to disclose before she goes and let it be her choice to still go to Rville. are not go.

Options
1. Tell her: Her reaction is none of my concern
2. Don't tell her. Her reaction is none of my concern

Both options, leads you down the same path focusing on yourself, healing yourself, and loving and respecting yourself. IMO you are trying to go to Rville, in hopes of getting your WW to change her mind. Without respect and honesty, Rville will not work. Focus on honesty and respect, you want your WW to be honest and her too respect you. Be the man and take the lead. You start with being honest to her and respecting yourself.

If you are not living in those values, why are you expecting your WW too?

I decided to tell her.

I started by asking if she had any more questions about Retrouvaille after reading about the program online. Her concerns and my responses were as follows:
1) Staying in a hotel room with me and much of the work being individual couples work in the room. I explained that there are two beds in the room. Also, I briefly described dialoguing and how the couples write about their feelings, then go back to their room to discuss each other's responses.
2) Time commitment of the weekend plus the post sessions. I shared that Friday is check-in early evening followed by introductions and starting the program from 8pm-11pm. Saturday is a full day and Sunday finishes around 5pm. She said she would only commit to participating through Saturday.
3) Being judged by others. I explained that the only time we share anything with the group is during introductions. I told her my intent is not to go there to guilt or ambush her or bring up the past. I said the first weekend is not the time to address those issues. Rather to give us a new methodology to communicate and a foundation for the present and going forward.
4) Her uncommon views of MR not agreeing with the Christian definition of MR. I asked her to help me understand this more and she basically stated that she doesn't believe in MR and implied that she can't be (or doesn't want to be) monogamous. She said that I shouldn't have high expectations and not be surprised if the teachings don't work on her because I will likely be disappointed.

At that point, I brought up the primary requirement of not being involved with OM. I told her that I know she has been involved with OM1 and OM2 in the past 9 months since BD (not a surprise to her as she knows that I know about the PA with OM2). I also told her that I know that she has continued that interaction with OM in the 4+ months since she moved out. I told her that it is a requirement that those relationships be over before attending Rville and I asked if those are still going to be going on. Her reply was waffling and vague at best. She said "No, I don't think so, no probably not, I don't even talk to OM2 anymore, and there is nothing with OM1." I didn't bring up OM3 which I believe is still a full blown PA and neither did she. Maybe that was a missed opportunity, I don't know if I should have challenged her on OM3 or not. I chose not to because I felt there was really nothing I can do to stop it, has to be her choice.

The door was open for her to be honest about her affairs, but she was still not willing to open up about them. I told her that honesty is very important to me moving forward and that is what I want to show her and the example I want to set for our kids. I told her I don't really know how she feels in the 4+ months since leaving since this is really the first time we really talked like this. I told her that I've tried to give her space and distance over this time to figure things out as she requested and she agreed that I have. She said she still doesn't know how she feels. I said there are some things better unknown because it's kind of like once you've seen it, then it can't be unseen. I told her that I can know enough about the past without knowing everything to try and re-establish trust. She said she doesn't know if she can't get passed everything herself and feel like I will not guilt or manipulate or be able to trust her. I replied I don't know either and won't until we are ready to try.

She said "It's me, I don't know if I can get over my transgressions." She said she hasn't been single in her life except one month between her sophomore and junior years in high school. She said she's been single over the past 9 months and I thought to myself really, you're in contact with OM on a daily basis. She said that her problem is that she goes from one fantasy to the next always looking for the ideal, that she's always lived that way and never truly lives in reality. She said she doesn't know if she can live in reality because that's not who she is. She said she really doesn't know who she is or what she wants or how she feels.

She said we are good friends right now and that's it. She doesn't feel anything else for me (FZ...great). I told her I need to be more than just friends, I want to be more than an afterthought. She complained about not being able to live the way she wants financially right now. She teared up and said she doesn't want to come back only for materialistic reasons. I agreed with her that's not why I want her to come back either, I said I want her to come back because she wants to be with me. It was quite late at this time, she was tired, and wanted to go back to her place. I thanked her for being open and said I appreciated the honesty and we said goodnight.

Well, that was the talk in a nutshell. At the moment, still a green light for Retrouvaille with a partial commitment for the weekend. It remains to be seen how deep she'll be in her affairs when it is scheduled to begin in 6 weeks. The Rville program details and addressing her concerns evolved into a R talk. I kept my cool and did not try to criticize, attack, or judge. I basically tried to accept who she is right now, what's done is done, and focus on how to move forward. I used several validating comments, asked a few questions to clarify and better understand what she was saying, and mostly tried to listen and not convince her. She clearly has a lack of attraction and minimal respect for me right now. I feel like telling her that she will not know how she feels about me and us until she breaks off all contact with the OM. I've read that it can take 6-24 months to get over an A. Every time they make contact her clock resets to zero. I really don't think she understands that or doesn't want to end it, or doesn't know how to break free from it.

Not sure where to go from here, ask for NC with OM? Or let things ride, let her fix her own problems, be the lighthouse, and wait for Rville?