Need Some Advice Please!!

[sandi2]

Hi Gomez, I caught your message on Sandi's Reflections and decided to come to your thread. Here's a copy of part of your post you sent me:

My W and I still live together with our 2 boys as the house sale has fallen through twice. She filed 6 months ago. Throughout the latter years of our R, my wife has said I was cold, unloving and didn’t respect her and I agree this is how I was. So to try to fix it, I tried to be more loving and caring. However, I know she had feelings for a friend of a friend and this went as far as sexting, so an EA. I know it didn’t go physical (I don’t want to say how I know but I know, not think). She’s always on her phone but she says she’s not in contact with him anymore. I’ve seen the last message was a couple of months ago but theoretically she could be deleting them. My question is, do I still treat her as a WW? It seems to me the way to treat a WW is different to a W that has been starved of love and affection for so long.

When I read your introductory post, you described how her not attending to her homemaking duties had really worn on your attitude toward her. (I gather she is not employed.) She spends her time mostly on her phone or spending money. You come home from work and basically do the housework and cooking, b/c she doesn't care to do it. Sounds like another very spoiled W. Between being spoiled to no responsibilities and the addiction to cell phones, I am greatly concerned not only for your family, but for many others who need to wake up and see the breakdown this is causing in MR's and families. My first question would be if she was not made to do any chores when she was growing up (spoiled by her parents), and if you didn't know how lazy she was until after you M her? Did you contribute to spoiling her after M, or is she just selfish, lazy, & entitled (which are usually the results of spoiling). Sorry, I just don't have much empathy for healthy women who sit around all day on their phones and let everything else slide. Just wondered when this started.

She was a fairly crappy housewife and spent way to much and in response I was cold and unloving towards her. This made her even more miserable so she did less and spent more so I was less inclined to be loving towards her and so we spiralled.

It sounds as if the two of you were in a cold war, and nobody was winning. Would it be fair to say the lack of housekeeping originally led to your feelings of disrespect for her? Is there any reason you believe her habits would change if she doesn't get a divorce?

The thing is, when she said she wanted a divorce I knew I'd messed up and did all the things you're not supposed to do (telling her I can change, phone calls, gifts etc) and of course it didn't work.

Are you saying that you had no idea you would be messing up by treating her coldly and unloving? Why do you suppose her announcement of wanting a D snapped your head around and you suddenly wanted her.......regardless of her crappy housekeeping and overspending?

I subsequently found out she'd been messaging a friend of a friend with some very explicit messages. She says it didn't go physical and I believe her. I don't think they're still in regular contact but she does get the occasional message and i think she still thinks about him sometimes, maybe as a potential lover, maybe just as a friend.

So, you did confront her about what you found out? She said nothing physical, and that was kind of how things were left, other than an occasional message from her OM? Now you found out about the OM after she said she wanted a D, right? Did you start buying her gifts and showing her affection after you learned about OM?

Okay, so let me just come out and say that your W is still wayward. It does not matter if she had a PA, or not. She was involved in very inappropriate behavior for a M woman. Waywardness is not just about having an affair. It begins in the heart of resentment & disrespect and leads to other negative attitudes and behavior. It didn't come about overnight, and it won't be resolved/recovered overnight. The WW, on her own accord, is seldom motivated to end and start doing that which is the right thing to do. However, she can definitely be motivated by other things, and that's partly what I want to talk about. She will never be motivated to fight for her M, when you are willing to sit back and take whatever leftovers you can get. You have not required anything from her, that I can tell. Were there even any consequences for her sexting, and still having contact with OM? If not, then why should she be concerned about her actions? Better yet, why would she respect you as a man? Whose idea was it to sleep in separate bedrooms? Was this before or after OM? Who initiated sex after separating bedrooms? Was it after you discovered activity with OM?

You and your W have this push-pull thing going on. If one of you want the M, the other one doesn't......or so it may appear. You can't seem to get in the same frame of mind at the same time. First of all, you need to know why your own feelings have run cold, hot, and to not sure of what you want. Was it b/c you discovered another guy was interested in her, or were you concerned you'd be left alone? You were adjusting to the idea of being single, so what changed your feelings? Emotions can be very fickle, just like a cheating wife, so try to figure yourself out and don't let emotions dictate your immediate decisions while you are learning more about what to do.

A lot of what I tell you may sound pro-divorce, but actually, I'm not. It just takes me a while to get it all said, and for the H to start seeing the picture. If you want the MR to work, then you need to know what isn't effective with a WW and what is. I can tell you this much, she doesn't tell you she wants a D in order to signal you to turn on the affection & romance. Maybe in the past she would have expressed her unhappiness, but I doubt she would have jumped straight for D, unless she was dabbling somewhere else. When OM didn't prove to be a solid Plan A, then she would lean back toward you to secure her Plan B. She did not want to work on the MR, nor did she suddenly realize how much she loved you. I hate to tell you, but I think she's playing games with you, and like most H's you are completely confused at her giving mixed signals. I suggest you stop trying to read her signals, b/c they are not honest. In order for this M to have a chance at being saved, you need to adapt a new method that may sound & feel totally opposite of what you thought one would do in this case.

To save time, you can read some threads where I wrote about the WW, her mindset, and what the H should/shouldn't do. Hopefully, it will answer some questions you may have. There are several, and here is the first one:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Whenever there has been behavior that indicates a wayward heart, the H should have a no nonsense policy where he tolerates none of her b.s.; ping-pong indecisiveness about the MR; sense of entitlement; texting/messaging any other men; disrespectful treatment/behavior, and anything else he finds to be unacceptable in a MR. Her values/standards seem to be lacking at the moment. Therefore, you need to double down on your own standards, instead of trying to watch her signals in order to judge your next move. One reason you need to know your own values, is so that you have a guide to set boundaries.

When dealing with a WW, one of the most necessary things the H needs to learn is setting effective boundaries. There is link in Cadet's first post about boundaries. Please read it, b/c many people assume they know what boundaries are, but they do not grasp how or why to set boundaries, the purpose, or how to enforce them. Boundaries are necessary in protecting your feelings from anyone who does not show you respect.

Waywardness calls for tough love, and if you are a guy who is trying to nice back his WW, my advice is to toughen up and start respecting yourself. I can tell you this much. She does not value her MR or her family, or she wouldn't be dabbling in the game of sexual thrills........and that is exactly what she is doing! Flirty emails, nude photos, sexting, phone sex.........whatever she's doing........it's for the sexual thrill. But what some people don't know is that it is very addictive, and the more she does....the more she'll need, to get the thrill. It's just like a drug. Sadly, there's no telling how long she has conducted this type of activity. These men are not her "friends", and don't kid yourself into thinking she can just continue talking to some guy like he's just a friend, after they have had phone sex. He's not interested if she doesn't want to play along. And, furthermore, she isn't that interested in just being a friend, either. She'll move on to someone else. So, it's time that you get real about this situation. ((hugs))

I've got to stop here, but I'll post again. Can't get it all down in one post.