And you seem to have done the research / reading up on this.. Appologies for the hyjack to Josh's post, but i do have a question about this statement...
Originally Posted by unchien
1. NGS is real. Work on myself and fix it. 2. Abuse, BPD, NPD - the labels don't matter. The only thing that matters now is whether my W is willing to work on her baggage.
Label or not, i believe my WW emotionally abused me and suffered BPD / NPD... I walked into my first councilling session with a list of issues that i felt needed addressing. At this point i had never heard of cluster B disorders, BPD or Vunerable NPD ( i'd heard the term narsasist, but related it to a poser like Lex Luger from WWF when i was like 10 ), but VNPD had never entered my head.
It was the counciler who mentioned this before our second session from memory - This was based off what i had written down as issues in session 1.. Out of my 8 issues with my WW, 7 fall into the BPD / NPD box..
My WW had baggage... I see that now, and i definetly had / have NGS - Ive just reread my intro post on this board from January and i list 5 times when she overstepped the mark and i just ignored / bent over the accomidate...
But my point / question being, baggage is one thing... and if the WW is prepared to work on it, great - .. But from my own research and from everything ive read, it is very very hard to get people with BPD / VNPD to even accept they have issues, let alone work on it. The general advice online seems to be walk away from BPD, VNPD people...
thoughts on this ?
helpme - First of all, I am not a qualified mental health professional. I have a lot of history looking into this stuff but won't bore you.
Regarding your question -- isn't the classic NGS response to a challenging person to throw your hands up and walk away? Instead of deal with it constructively? I want to challenge you here not because I think you are wrong, but I think you should maybe dig a little deeper first. Perhaps your situation, regardless of outcome, is perfectly engineered to help you address your NGS. Or you could be completely right that your W is so toxic that you should truly walk away. I'm only suggesting that perhaps if you change yourself, you could change some of the dynamic with your W.
Also, you are falling into the trap that bothers me. "Here's the list of 9 BPD criteria, let's see how many my spouse satisfies." Well first of all, I know for a fact you yourself satisfy at least one of the 9: Fear of Abandonment. And by being on this forum, you likely have some trouble regulating your emotions and responses. I'm not accusing you of BPD, I'm only pointing out that all people can improve their emotional regulation and it will benefit you in all aspects of your life.
Yes, BPDs are known to walk away from treatment. I am considering firing our MC. Does that make me BPD? Wait, I am sticking with my IC... does that make me not BPD? But in IC, I am working on some DBT coping strategies, which were originally developed for BPD - am I again back to being BPD? Does it matter?
BPD in my mind is all about emotional regulation. Anyone can improve their emotional regulation, including NGs with their toxic shame.
Your W certainly does sound extreme. I am not denying that. I think the important question to consider is whether she is capable of change. BPDs can change. I think there are a few key steps to any change (not just BPD):
1. Accept there is a problem. 2. Stop the problematic behavior. 3. Address the underlying thoughts and attitudes that are driving the problematic behavior.
#1 is the "BPD hurdle" you read about online. #2 is good but not sufficient. #3 is what it's all about. Are they capable of true change? Well.. it takes a lot of work and motivation.
On the topic of emotional abuse -- there are truly awful people who you should run away from, full stop. But just like BPD, the term is bandied about often recklessly. Also, emotionally abusive relationships are often about the dynamic between two people and not just one individual being abusive and the other the poor victim. As a NG, I am sure I have enabled abusive behavior or even unknowingly encouraged it. Perhaps laying down some appropriate boundaries would reduce the symptoms. Do you feel counter-accused? Look at step #1 above. Again, these are meant to be light challenges just to get you thinking before jumping too quickly to conclusions - your initial conclusion may be completely right.
Anyways, all the labels are useful and can lead you to finding great material online. I just heavily resist the labeling aspect. Even the "NG" label is problematic. It's a good gateway into learning, just don't identify too heavily with the label.
Steve85 said it very succinctly - mostly this is about a spouse's emotional issues and baggage. And it is also about your own baggage as well. You have to decide whether or not you believe she is capable of change, and be at peace with your decision, but also investigate your own role and any personal changes you feel are necessary.
One last comment on walking away from BPD. My mom has some sort of a cluster B BPD/NPD mix of issues. About three years ago she severed our relationship. It is really sad to see my kids grow up and no longer know their grandparents. I have accepted it, and feel relief not dealing with the anxiety and constant stress of trying to manage that relationship. But... in the back of my mind, sometimes I feel like I have taken the easy way out just accepting this. Perhaps I can try to salvage something. Perhaps I could set some healthy boundaries up front, even ask my parents to go to counseling themselves, and try to make something work, because they are family after all. Maybe it wouldn't work. Maybe regardless of the outcome, it would be a step in healing my NGS...
