Complex WW and/or MLC #3

[P_Jam]

It’s been a really busy couple weeks for me and my sitch. Let me first start by answering Sandi’s questions:
Sandi, I believe my sitch is a little unique because:
1. I BD her at the same time she BD me. Both of us were unfaithful and I think this shook her to the core almost as much as me finding out about her OM
2. My W has not had a lot of the WW characteristics… Avoiding kids/family, being mean to me, etc. We don’t really ‘fight’. She’s been polite in all of her interactions since BD. More than me.
3. Because I recorded conversations, I have a pretty good idea where her head is at in relation to the Sitch and OM. Obviously, this still can’t be relied on 100% because there is always an unknown perspective she might have even when sharing information with her friends. But I believe it has allowed me to fully understand the situation and her lack of love/interest in these men. I’m confident she is out seeking validation/love/belonging from these OM. Not yet in love or looking to ‘replace’ me. Per my IC she basically reached an emotional breaking point and went into crisis.

I’m afraid she’ll want to reconcile because its comfortable and because of the family structure but not want to do the correct/necessary process to properly address the infidelity and learn how to build a new, better and deeper relationship. Basically, allowing the opportunity to just end up finding our original equilibrium. I’m also fearful that she doesn’t understand the draw/pull of Limerence and therefore she thinks she can stop OM when she is ‘happy in our relationship’. Before this last weekend I was also afraid that she wouldn’t be willing to have a full transparency plan to rebuild trust (or fully understand the need) but this has changed (more in the update below)
Update:
First took the boys out of town for a long weekend with Grandma/Grandpa. Playing, swimming, bike riding - great time for everyone. It was great to be away and forget the drama and focus on the kids. I also believe W has been taking some time to herself to reflect. I can’t prove this but based on her actions towards me it feels like a reasonable assumption. Also, because we were on a ‘vacation’ the kids were up late and every night when they wanted to call W it was around 10pm or a little later. Each night she was at home alone (as far as I know) but the kids always use facetime (not just phone call) and based on the way she walked and talked around the apartment - I’m pretty sure no one else was there. She also did not look all ‘done up’ like she was going to be rushing out the door as soon as the call was over. She has also said to me multiple times that she is not “seeing anyone”. Based on information here (believe nothing of what they say and only half of what they do) I have assumed she is still GGW or some PA but nothing ‘serious’ in regard to ‘seeing’ someone. But it is possible that she isn’t doing any of it right now.
After we returned from our trip; the kids had their golf league practice on Thursday again. We attended together and ended up having dinner and drinks again with friends on the deck. She came over and spent the night again (had sex again). Very little R talk, but a few little conversations about wanting to try. Just nothing specific about how/when we make that jump to trying/piecing as she knows this takes a specific conversation and commitment (both to each other and to MC). I just let it go as I want her to be sure and not jump into it. I’m not pressuring for this step right now. Just creating a good opportunity for her to think about it, make a conscious decision and then let me know.
I had the golf tournament this last weekend (it was a team event) and my partners W invited my W to come hang out at the club with her during the tournament (I knew nothing about this). Even though him and his wife know exactly what is going on in our sitch. They are the ones that just recently moved across the street. I think she was trying to set this up for a couple of reasons. 1. She does think reconciliation is possible so maybe just creating another opportunity for us all to hang out. Or two, like this board she also doesn’t trust my W right now. So she may have been testing her to see if she would want to take the necessary steps (ask me, get babysitter, etc) to come hang out or not.
This started out very well. After the tournament we all ate and had a lot of drinks partying with a lot of new people (not my normal crowd). She was all over me, holding hands, hugging, kissing, just as if she was my W again. It was fun but odd for me as well as I don’t feel like we are at that point. But I do understand the draw in that situation to feel good and want to just act like old times again. We already had plans for her to stay at my house that night because that is where they babysitter was watching the kids (and because we both knew we wanted to spend the night together again). But at the VERY end of the night it took a different turn. We were leaving the club and I walked her back to her car and she started a relationship talk. She finally broke down crying and was remorseful for everything and apologized profusely. She said she couldn’t believe all that she had done and who she had become. It was great! Almost everything I needed/wanted to hear. But then I had to ‘test’ her. As there are still things, I know that she doesn’t know that I know. She had made a comment that she hadn’t slept with anyone since we had decided to ‘work’ on our relationship. Which I had her clarify what ‘date’ she was referring to. She was talking about when I found out about the PA and confirmed it with her as well as BD her with my own information – So January. I then looked her dead in the eyes and THAT IS A LIE! YOU NEED TO STOP LYING TO ME! Because GGW even was in February. She then proceeded to try and defend this by telling half-truths which was insinuating that she didn’t ‘sleep’ with anyone. What she was saying was true (technically) but what she was insinuating (that sex did not happen) was a lie. So I pressed her again and told her she cannot lie to me anymore. She finally broke and admitted it but now she was ANGRY! I explained that she started this conversation and I have not once pushed her for any details, but that she know my expectation was complete honesty and that its hard for me to believe her remorse when she’s continuing to lie to me. She told me to get out of the car, she was upset because she was trying to open up and be vulnerable and that all I try to do is remind her of her cheating. I explained that this is not true, only that we need to be in counseling discussing this stuff (in a safe environment) so that we can get it all on the table and deal with it properly. She again asked me to get out the car.. So I said “okay” and I did. I get in my car went home, paid the babysitter, went to bed and she went to the apartment. I woke up, took the kids to grandparents as W had to work the next day and I had the golf tournament. After dropping off the kids I dropped my W bag of clothes and all her bathroom stuff off to her at her apartment. I also wanted to discuss the night before as I do believe that alcohol had a part in the negative events of that night based on how much we had both been drinking. It was a much better conversation she apologized again – but I could still tell she was a little defensive. I explained that I just need her to open up and be honest with me, stop trying to hide her affairs and once she comes clean, I then can start to believe that she is focused on honesty. I left it there and went to my tournament.
We have since shared a couple of long emails/letters back and forth. Not the most ideal way to communicate but at this point it seems to be the only way she can open up. She is still VERY remorseful but as expected she is also still very violated by my surveillance of her. Which I understand. After talking to my IC I can understand what her perspective might be. She is remorseful she is sorry but it is hard for anyone to think about having to admit to EVERY infidelity (EA/PA). Although that may be part of the process in the future she is feeling very violated and out of control in regards to what/when she has to share this information. For example: I already know that to rebuild this the right way I need to disclose all of my infidelity details (to a point) but even I feel a bit nervous about some of it (and I actually have the ability to withhold the information if I want to, because no one else know. She does not have this luxury as she doesn’t know what I know and the pressure of being ‘forced’ to disclose it just to “prove” she’s being honest does not feel quit right to her yet.
So for now I’m cutting her a little slack on this (not telling her she has slack) only that I’m not going to NOT make too much out of the fact that she wasn’t 100% honest in this first conversation. I’m going to take all of this as a positive as my boundaries have not changed. Reconciliation requires monogamy commitment, MC, & transparency plan (both of us). She knows this. She has yet to fully accept but she is also aware of my ultimatum – she has a specific amount of time before I turn the other way and actually start living the single life. She mentioned it in one of the letters. I explained that I’m not asking for another 16yrs of marriage. I’m asking for effort to rebuild (in the right way) and if it doesn’t work then we agree to have an open conversation about ending our effort/relationship before running into the arms of other people.
As of now the ball is in her court again. I wrote the last letter/email to her and have yet to receive a response, but I did mention that the last few Thursdays at the club have been great with her around and I hope that we continue that path. I also hope she can see my perspective and at least understand why we need a 3rd party to sift through this mess with us (MC). I’m not sure what to expect… only that I’m okay if it takes her some time still to commit. I plan to now go back to zero pressure. Back to time/space and not try to rush it. I might get a feel for it in 2 days when we are at the kids golf practice, but I will not try to pressure or expect anything. Only to try and have a good cordial time again.
She could still BD me again and turn the other way. If this happens, I will take this as her ‘final’ decision and I will then move in the other direction. However, my gut tells me that this will not happen. So I will stay focused on paving the way back for her (smoothly) and allowing her to make the decision on her own.
This is a lot but I feel like I’m still leaving out a lot of detailed information. So let me know what you think, if you have any questions I might be able to clarify cause some of this is very recent but there were some other events over the last 1.5-2 weeks that got us here. I might be relevant but I just can’t really recapture it all without writing novel #2 tonight.