Story and Symptoms of WAW/MLC Part 3

[IHCLACS]

Hey AS. Actually yes I really did answer my own question and yes I really am done. I'm not doing anything for a reaction from her. I'm doing what I want when I want and how I want with S1 because I want to. The only reason why I'm bringing all this to everyone's attention here, is because even though I'm confident in my decisions, it's always nice to have a second third or fourth pair of eyes of those who've gone through this with experience. It's always easier for someone else to advise someone from the outside looking in rather than the inside looking out. we both know that she is only throwing me breadcrumbs to keep me on the hook. we both know that if I was to even spend time with her and the baby this weekend it wouldn't mean anything or make a difference or change her mind.

What I'm trying to say here is in the beginning she entered my world and my frame and over the years I've gone into her world and her frame. I'm not doing it anymore I'm rebuilding my social networks and my life without her. I'm not saying she would have to meet all my terms and conditions I wouldn't expect her to, BUT... I would have to see a very big behavioral change on her part and a extremely strong desire to recommit to work on things otherwise I am out I am shutting that door, I am checked out and I'm going to follow through with it all the way to the end 100%. If she wants to have a change of heart at the eleventh hour to recommit 100% to work on things, not sell the house, go to counseling, not have a separate parenting schedule, and keep the family intact, and has any desire to Love Me Again then that's up to her. I won't settle for anything less than that. I would rather be alone, on my own terms, living my own life, doing my own thing. I completely let go of who she was. Who this version of the current person is I have no desire to be with. I'm not going to love someone who doesn't love me back and I won't accept table scraps to see if that person I once knew is still there? Nothing less than full committed to reconciliation, and that's only a starting point for me, as we all know piecing is even more work. It honestly amazes me that there are people on here that are willing to hang around for W W's and my situation is far less traumatic than theirs, and now I'm willing to walk away over far less. Even if she ever did fully commit to reconciliation I'm still not sure if I could trust her because if she could do this once she holds the potential to do it again. I don't ever want that on my conscience. It would take some serious time space and rebuilding of trust established at kind of a connection again in Trust, and I understand the door swings both ways with her on that too.

[IHCLACS]

Had another rage moment this weekend, but kept it under control. Will update later. Watched Swingers for the first time last night, Great movie. I didn't know so many big names were in it. Definitely spoke the message and vibe I needed to hear with all the guys going through this crap. We rise, we fall, we rise again. Bottom line is eventually we will follow our own path, and hopefully come across someone who gets us and understands us. Not like our WAW'S... I say let em walk. Don't give them a second thought, even if they claim that for years, they were doing all the work, they obviously didn't communicate things properly, or had proper coping mechanisms for both parties to come to a peaceable resolve. I am at a point where the only thing me and the STBXW agree on is that we don't agree or understand anything about each others perceptions and perspectives, and even if we did, it doesn't change anything. I say let them walk. Ill find someone someday who eventually gets me. Attributes, flaws and all. My time is precious.

[IHCLACS]

Guys I'm really having a hard time with my rage. Four things causing it. One being compulsive thinking about entire R, looking for Clues and ques and words against actions with W throughout M. Been reading a bit of Rollo Tomassi and Esther Perle lately. Kind of getting red pilled. The more I learn realizing the more I understand and more clarity I have how women just are. I'm here I'm really angry that I cannot have much of a social life. Plus every time I come home from where I am traveling from, there's always more stuff being done around the house by her more stop being boxed up. Every time I come home on Friday she always remind me that she's making plans. It f@$!ing pisses me off to no end when she goes out. Most of the time it doesn't bother me and I don't let it show and usually I know it's with girlfriends without her having to tell me. But she's real sneaky about it doesn't say where she's going or what she's doing. There is one girl friend who is getting married who she's been spending a bit of time with along with my brother's ex-girlfriend who is recently divorced. These two friends of hers have no connection with one another. I don't know if this is my paranoia. I can't put my proof or finger on it and I know I need to let this go. But as soon as one of her girlfriends started her bridal party plans with the bridesmaid stuff that my W was involved with, the very first bridal party Gathering I noticed something was off with her back in August and then after in January or February when she start separating everything. The first bridal party event she went to that is when the Rings came off I also noticed she started wearing lipstick doing her nails wearing different perfumes and start trimming her nether regions. I again I don't know for sure but I think there's something going on there. I just want to know if my suspicions and instincts and intuition is right? There are definitely enablers there

I've been trying my hand at online dating but no luck yet and it seems like the more profiles I brows through the more all the women sound the same... Jaded, or flaky, or just not for me.

I hate the fact that I can't have a social life because of custody schedule. I hate the fact that I have to always go back to that house to see her because of my son. I hate the fact that I have to box up all my $hit still, find a storage locker, eventually start looking for a new home or apt. I'm so f@$ing angry with her. I'm angry that the past means absolutely nothing to her. I'm angry she can't see what a hard-working dedicated good person I am despite me being a bit emotional. Guys I've tried being present and it was working couple of months ago for a couple of weeks. I feel like I have no time to myself and I'm forced to go back to a place in the person that I don't want to be, until the house sells. It's not even on the market yet. I'm finding only small tidbits of temporary joy. Is compulsive thoughts on trying to figure out everything that went wrong and how and why does give me insight and their mistake I want to learn from this I don't make them again in the future. But going down that road it just makes me more angry the more I learn. Not entirely at myself up because women just do $hit that's f@$!ed up by their own nature. I've seen it throughout my five relationships. Them going from you being the best thing since sliced bread from them nagging you or them trying to change you for them not being happy or satisfied with what you bring to the table, well they bring nothing but their good charm and looks. People are telling me Chase Excellence not women and their right. A man goes in a relationship hoping things will never change, a woman goes in a relationship hoping that things change and grow all the time and if you are not growing at the same Pace as them for changing with them, or satisfying them then you are beta. I do understand that they are reactive freetress and they're only reacting to who I am. Even though there are some things I've gotten better at over the years of other things within my frustration tolerance I need to work on with myself. I will never let my guard down or marry again knowing what I know.

I really hate being here in this place. I wish I could just fast forward to a new apartment A New Life in a new me, where the focus is nothing but myself and my S1. My feelings of betrayal keep coming up, no matter who I vent to, no matter how many times it temporarily gets displaced with GAL. No matter how many councelors I talk to. I wish I could be happy alone and be happy without a woman in my life. But I don't know if I can it's just the way I'm wired. I've been pursuing girls and woman since I was 4 years old. I hate being single. I hated being single since I was 16.. I actually feel like Mikey from the movie Swingers, but I definitely don't come across that desperate. I know I'm responsible for my own happiness and that no one else could ever provide that to me nor should they. I just either want an intact family with son and W, or I want to restart my own life and be where I want to be and do what I want to do, and have a successful thriving time doing it.

Maybe once I start up a band with my co-worker and I start doing what I love, maybe my focus will change in time?

[SteveLW]

IHC, hang in there. Find productive outlets for that rage and anger. You mentioned in someone else's thread that you have guns. Get out to the range. That was my outlet. I felt best when I was in that lane with a high-powered weapon putting holes in paper.

[LH19]

Dude I am starting to get concerned about your well being. Didn't you just file for Divorce?

Guys I'm really having a hard time with my rage. Four things causing it. One being compulsive thinking about entire R, looking for Clues and ques and words against actions with W throughout

Complete waste of time.

The more I learn realizing the more I understand and more clarity I have how women just are.

I have mentioned this to you in the past. I am sure these derogatory remarks towards women are part of your problem.

I'm here I'm really angry that I cannot have much of a social life.

Why can't you? You spend hours posting on this website.

It f@$!ing pisses me off to no end when she goes out. Most of the time it doesn't bother me and I don't let it show and usually I know it's with girlfriends without her having to tell me.

This statement sounds a little crazy right?

But she's real sneaky about it doesn't say where she's going or what she's doing. There is one girl friend who is getting married who she's been spending a bit of time with along with my brother's ex-girlfriend who is recently divorced. These two friends of hers have no connection with one another. I don't know if this is my paranoia. I can't put my proof or finger on it and I know I need to let this go. But as soon as one of her girlfriends started her bridal party plans with the bridesmaid stuff that my W was involved with, the very first bridal party Gathering I noticed something was off with her back in August and then after in January or February when she start separating everything. The first bridal party event she went to that is when the Rings came off I also noticed she started wearing lipstick doing her nails wearing different perfumes and start trimming her nether regions. I again I don't know for sure but I think there's something going on there. I just want to know if my suspicions and instincts and intuition is right?

Number 1 this isn't your business anymore. Number 2 please read below.

I've been trying my hand at online dating but no luck yet and it seems like the more profiles I brows through the more all the women sound the same... Jaded, or flaky, or just not for me.

I hate the fact that I can't have a social life because of custody schedule.

Excuses

Not entirely at myself up because women just do $hit that's f@$!ed up by their own nature.

derogatory

Them going from you being the best thing since sliced bread from them nagging you or them trying to change you for them not being happy or satisfied with what you bring to the table, well they bring nothing but their good charm and looks.

So your saying the only thing a woman brings to the table is her charm and looks? Then you spend hours at a time wondering what went wrong????

People are telling me Chase Excellence not women and their right.

These are some smart people.

A man goes in a relationship hoping things will never change, a woman goes in a relationship hoping that things change and grow all the time and if you are not growing at the same Pace as them for changing with them, or satisfying them then you are beta.

Or maybe you decide your not meant for one another and move on.

I wish I could be happy alone and be happy without a woman in my life.

Until you are able to accomplish this you will continue to struggle.

[IHCLACS]

Yeah Steve I haven't been to the range in a year. I was actually doing the militia, getting plenty of range time and training prior to BD. W who is a liberal centrist. Anti conservative, didn't like that I was putting some of my focus into that, and it didn't make her feel safe. She thinks I'm a right-wing extremist which is further from the truth she just never gave them a chance even though we do a lot did a lot of good for the community and emergency eram and stuff like that, help out police, fbi, disaster clean up community outreach etc. She believes everything through the media about them being right-wing extremist. Her father was a vietnam marine but her family mostly Democrats. My wife actually like the idea of socialism. My father was also a marine but before Vietnam era he passed away several years ago. I was raised Democrats with the Unions in my family, but I turned conservative in 2010 and started getting very politically active. Another division between us because this country is so divided today, start playing a role in dividing our marriage. Me and my WAW, are like Ronald Reagan and Jane Seymour.

I guess one of my issues what's really is driving my rage at the thought of a blended family in the future. I don't want that for my son but I have no choice. She wants to raise him one way and I want to raise him another. Being as conservative as I have become I just don't believe in splitting up the family.

I think I think it's overdue for me to get together with my shooting buddies. I actually enjoy cleaning my guns more than I do shooting them, I haven't even looked at them since December. Another thing that pisses me off about W. I purchased her a pistol about 3 years ago. Was asking for 3 years to take her to the range to get a proficient on it for self-defense and home purposes. she never took an active interest and never wanted to go with me. Now all of a sudden she's expressing interest in going to the range with my younger brother's ex-girlfriend who is divorced.

I don't know who this person is anymore or who I thought she was. I know all the warning signs red flags Mental Health depression mlc and daddy issues were there, but yet she projects all those issues onto me. I wish sometimes I wasn't as an emotional person as I am. When I'm happy people know about it when I'm angry people know about it when I'm consumed people know about it and when I'm sad people know about it. It's my thoughts that are driving the emotions more than the circumstances. More like the thoughts of the circumstances driving the emotions. Therapy helps, I just feel like that I'm very unique and that there really isn't anyone out there for me so I can relate sometimes. At least not in an intimate way without letting your guard down. The reason why I have abandonment issues is because I've had four girlfriends and a wife leave me. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy. If they have weaknesses it's okay but if a man has a one weakness, just forget it they're done there is no long-term relationship. They will grind them down slowly over time in a marriage. If they are too Alpha then they're considered emotionally abusive, controling, manipulative, etc, If they are too Beta then they are considered a doormat. I know I shouldn't be discussing politics on here because there are a lot of good respectful people on both sides of the aisle and I understand that. I can be friends with people and agree to disagree politely. but it is in my most humble opinion that feminism has destroyed this country and the women in with their ideals. I do believe a woman should have her independence and they should have equalism in the workplace. What is far as relationships go a man and a woman will never be equal because they think differently they steal differently they do things differently, and they are built much differently. There are too many women running around today that have too much expectations of men that they themselves are unwilling to fulfil for themselves. There has to be a balance within the family. Steve I'm sure you know the divorce rates are initiated by 70% of women because they aren't happy for whatever reason whether it be midlife crisis depression boredom monkey branching, financial reasons, division of labor reasons comparing with the Joneses. Dissatisfaction and etcetera. in my opinion the only time a woman should have the right to release to leave a marriage as in the case of abuse and neglect, but they can turn their perception of their husband not paying enough attention to them as neglect, and their husband putting their foot down on a serious matter as emotional abuse. The divorce course need to change. other than having children there is no benefit to a man getting married in today's society. Women have too many choices today actually it's more than women it's everyone. I want to make marriage holy again and not legal. I know I'm coming off as a misogynist, but I'm not. I'm really starting to believe that women love opportunistically and men do actually love idealistically . Women don't respect men today, and men don't respect women. The division and understanding of the opposite sexes is just as divided as the political arena. Not all but most of the women identify with identity politics, emotion and cause. Not all but most men identify with logical reasoning and consequence.

I'm sorry if I'm renting but I had to get off my chest and thank you all for listening. I'm just really angry and sad at the current state of affairs in our country and the current state of affairs between men and women and the current state of affairs in my marriage, clearly knowing that there is something wrong in Western culture, and there is little that we can do about it it's just the way it is. It almost leaves me with a feeling of hopelessness that I will probably be alone as far as having an intimate partner for good amount of time of my life, because of the way I believe and think. Maybe I need to move to a different part of the country I don't know?

[SteveLW]

IHC, what concerns me is your inconsistency:

guess one of my issues what's really is driving my rage at the thought of a blended family in the future. I don't want that for my son but I have no choice. She wants to raise him one way and I want to raise him another. Being as conservative as I have become I just don't believe in splitting up the family.

Maybe I need to move to a different part of the country I don't know?

So in one thought you don't want to split your family up, in the next you are talking about moving hundreds of miles away?

IHC I know you are struggling. And I think your first paragraph gave me a good idea why. You gave up something you love for your W? I assume once BD hit you gave up the range and militia to try to get her back? Is this your pattern? Have you been DBing with one eye on her to see her reaction? Did you file for D hoping that would wake her up?

One of the things we coach posters on is to strive to do NOTHING for her benefit. If you do, it will backfire and not result in what you think it should or hope it would. And I think this is where a lot of your issues are stemming from. You have tried to manipulate and control through your entire sitch, and then get frustrated when it doesn't work the way you think it should. Frustration breeds anger. Anger breeds rage. Thus here we are.

Your last line in your earlier post nailed it. You HAVE to learn to be happy by yourself. Otherwise you will never be happy with someone, and they certainly won't be happy with you. I think you are in IC, right? If not, get in it. If you are, then consider changing to another C.

IHC you have a chance here to improve and move forward. Don't let that chance go by. Don't look back in 10, 15, 20 years from now with regrets that you didn't take this opportunity to learn and grow!

LH hit you with a lot of truth bombs. Consider them very carefully.

[IHCLACS]

No LH I haven't filed yet. Obviously and unfortunately my thoughts of my emotions are still ruling me. I go back and forth with it from week to week. I think some of my words are being misconstrued t online cuz I'm not presenting it in person in the right context. but you're right some of my statements do sound derogatory and contradicting and crazy. You're right her business isn't my business anymore and I know that I make sure of that. Doesn't mean I don't have feelings about it. This is about me letting go of control. This is about me letting go of the past. This is about me being in limbo and developing my future and not having the patience, or the stability make that happen. I guess I have all this internal conflict because a part of me knows that I need to move forward and a part of me still has to let go of the past. Just when I thought I let it go for a few weeks of creeps back in. I know the compulsive thinking is a waste of time what's my way of reminding myself what I need to learn, and then the emotions come up from it as a result.

Let me ask you this question LH 19? If people aren't meant for 1 another which does happen in marriages and the reason why people get divorced? Then why is it that there was enough attraction there in the beginning to get married in the first place? Why did that some marriages make it between 7 years and 25 years before divorce? I mean I understand people grow apart for different reasons? Whether it be incompatibility or or someone going through depression or a midlife crisis, cheating WW, whatever? Pick your one of a thousand reasons. Then what the hell is the point of the institution of marriage and what the hell is the point of having marriage vows? Marriage comes in many forms today in our Western Society some deem it as holy others deem it as legal some deem as emotional, some considerate societal. Marriage means many different things for many people. I think the legal aspects should be considerably revampt in our Western culture. You can say what you want about my thoughts but a man in America going through a divorce has too much to lose and a woman has too much to gain,. there is an imbalance there. It does happen but very seldom do you see men having full custody of their children and receiving child support and alimony. If a woman walks away from a marriage that's legally binding she shouldn't receive anything, unless there is a history and proof of abuse. If a man walks away from a marriage or has a documented history of abuse and neglect that should be obligatory for him to pay child support and alimony. I would love to see what happened if we eliminated the family courts altogether and just put this into a civil court, where proper restitution and punitive damages can equally go both ways, man or woman.

as far as me taking hours at a time to not only event on here but help out other people going through this I really do empathise with them. I know I'm in the middle of my situation and I can barely help myself but I want to help them and it feels good not being alone, that we all can share our experiences and learn from them. We are all here for three reasons. to save ourselves, to gain knowledge and learn from our mistakes and grow, and to potentially save our marriages.

I just turned my own personal posts into venting sessions because I have no one else to talk to about this. I mean I can talk to my family about it, but the thoughts and emotions build up and I just have to do something with him so I Journal them on here. Right wrong or indifferent. some days are better than others until I get all the way through the other side just like everybody else on here.

[SteveLW]

et me ask you this question LH 19? If people aren't meant for 1 another which does happen in marriages and the reason why people get divorced? Then why is it that there was enough attraction there in the beginning to get married in the first place? Why did that some marriages make it between 7 years and 25 years before divorce?

This is a very good question. And I can sum it up in one word:

SELFISHNESS

People in western society are way too selfish. And so they get into a marriage and instead of being committed they are constantly assessing whether or not it is working for them or not. Look at the vows people take, and then how they behave afterword. If people looked at it as I am committing to this person, hell or high-water, for LIFE, then maybe marriage in western society could turn around.

It certainly isn't about compatibility. Why do I say that? Because in societies where arranged marriages are the norm, those societies have some of the lowest divorce rates in the world!

Until western society because less selfish, then the divorce rate will continue to climb.

IHC, can I ask a personal question? Did you and your STBxW go through premarital counseling?

[AnotherStander]

Guys I'm really having a hard time with my rage. Four things causing it. One being compulsive thinking about entire R, looking for Clues and ques and words against actions with W throughout M.

First of all, it's OK to be angry. Anger is an emotion, it's no "better" or "worse" than any other emotion, it's one of many emotions we all experience throughout a year, month, week and sometimes even day. But do try to find reasonable ways to process that anger. Boxing or the shooting range or the gym or sports or something. Hell I remember riding my motorcycle to a remote spot and just getting off and screaming my head off until I was hoarse and dizzy.

Second, let me remind you of what you just said recently:

I really have no interest in spending time with her anymore, unless she's willing to recommit to M. I've made myself clear too many trust issues have been broken, she's not willing to work together on them, so Im done and pushing forward.

If you are that done with her, then how is it she has so much power over your state of mind? Do what you said you are doing- BE DONE AND PUSH FORWARD.

I'm really angry that I cannot have much of a social life.

Then make one. If she can't watch the kids then hire a sitter.

Every time I come home on Friday she always remind me that she's making plans. It f@$!ing pisses me off to no end when she goes out.

Hire a sitter and go out yourself.

I also noticed she started wearing lipstick doing her nails wearing different perfumes and start trimming her nether regions. I again I don't know for sure but I think there's something going on there. I just want to know if my suspicions and instincts and intuition is right?

Your suspicions of what, an affair? You want nothing to do with her and you are perusing dating sites, why do you care what she's doing.

I hate the fact that I have to box up all my $hit still, find a storage locker, eventually start looking for a new home or apt.

Well it's an inconvenience, no question about that. But here's the deal. You were way too codependent and whose fault is that? I went through this soul-searching during that same period of anger and frustration that you are going through and determined I wasn't mad at W, I was mad at MYSELF. At the end of the day I had grown too dependent on her, relied too much on her, based too many plans on a future with her. I RELINQUISHED RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY LIFE TO SOMEONE ELSE!!!! Once I came to that realization, I came to another one- I was the one that had to right that wrong. And I did. It took years of hard work and discipline but I finally adjusted to being completely independent. The buck stops here, I am solely responsible for my happiness, my health, my well-being, my groceries, my bills, my taxes, my mortgage. This is what we should all strive for. Then we may "want" someone to join us in this ride called life, but we don't "need" them. And there is a big difference there.

So be angry, that's fine. But turn it into a new phase of personal productivity. Grow. Prosper.

I just either want an intact family with son and W, or I want to restart my own life and be where I want to be and do what I want to do, and have a successful thriving time doing it.

There you go, sounds like a great plan!