Persistent Endurance (Part 3)

[curtis7]

Curtis, we don't know each other and I haven't commented on your post before. But I wondered if a woman's POV here might be helpful to you? I don't know the history of your marriage, the way physical contact and affection played out between the two of you, how your intimate life was - anything like that. I don't know if your wife is a survivor of rape or CSA (many women are, and many women don't tell their husbands) but I can promise you this - the fact that you wanted physical contact with her, she didn't but seemed to go along with it anyway because she either felt sorry for you, or wanted to avoid the consequences - however minor - of upsetting you - and that you knew she wasn't up for this physical contact but went and took what you wanted and enjoyed it anyway - is very very sinister. Love is patient and kind. Love is not about you getting what you want out of someone who does not want to give it. I am putting this in a hard way but I think it is so important.

Hi Allison, thanks for your feedback. There is no history of sexual abuse for my W that I’m aware of. All indications are that she went along with the hug as a way of being nice. Nothing was forced and she wasn’t held against her will. It was my attempt to connect and her response made it clear she is not interested in connecting right now.

Also, since I’ve stopped snooping and we are physically separated, I don’t know if she is still participating in PAs/EAs with OM. I assume she is based on recent history, but I don’t know for certain. The hug may may have been my temp check to find out if she had given that up.

Saying that I didn’t care was a poor choice of words. In hindsight, I think it was my way of rationalizing the rejection to myself. I do care about her feelings and certainly want them to be filled with more positive than negative feelings about me. Your POV follows R2C’s and Sandi’s. This point has been belabored. I regret attempting to hug her now had I been able to foresee that she wasn’t going to be receptive to it. Moving on from that mistake.

I would echo what Alison said from a guy's perspective. I have struggled with much of the same types of issues in my own MR. I had a couple of rules: if she ever said no, that was the end of it. (That doesn't mean I didn't pout or whine or complain or get resentful, which also was not good, but I didn't PRESS her on it in the moment.) If she reluctantly said ok, but I sensed any sort of resistance, I would not continue either. (Again, not that I handled it well afterward.)

However, from an emotional standpoint this is VERY VERY important. As Alison said "Love is patient and kind. Love is not about you getting what you want out of someone who does not want to give it." Your W has to feel safe with you. Pressing her on it and her "giving in" might not have legal ramifications (and shouldn't), but emotionally she could put you in the category of a sexual abuser. And that obviously could have detrimental impacts on your relationship with her.

Steve, sounds like we had some of the same behaviors. There was a period of time after our second child was born that she wasn’t in the mood as often as I was. No definitely meant no, but that didn’t stop me from hemming and hawing about it to make her feel guilty. But, I also wanted her to be into it, not obligatory or out of pity, so I would back off even when she would give in. I recognized that wasn’t productive or healthy for our relationship and stopped that a few years ago.

Near the end of last year when I found an early handwritten version of her BD drop letter, she stated that she didn’t feel cherished. I think this follows what you and Allison are alluding to with regards to love is patient, Love is kind and how negative interactions in this area can cause severe emotional damage. I have developed a much deeper appreciation for how women attach emotions to negative experiences and never let go of those memories. It builds walls and resentment that are extremely difficult to bring down. My belief is that time and consistency of positive behavior can chip away at the armor guarding her heart and that will be when she is open to R. The things we learn after crisis...I just hope and pray that one day I will be able to show her that it will be different and not repeated.