Married couple from Scandinavia

[DnJ]

Hello Ben

First off let me agree with kml. I would not rent W a place. The big problem for her is that she needs to grow up. Having “daddy” pay for her apartment isn’t going to do that.

If she wants out, of the marriage, of the house, whatever - let her do all the heavy lifting. You don’t want that, so why would you help?

This is where the power of this forum can real come to play for you. Different perspectives from different situations. And kml is pretty darn wise, good idea to carefully consider what she says.

I will also upfront address the issue of at times harsh sounding advice. This is a difficult time for you, rife with emotions and fear, and some stuff may sound harsh at first. Later you will be giving similar advice to the next poor person would needs to hear it.


I am glad to hear from you, and so soon. I will answer your questions, as best I can.

The wedding could be a trigger, and it just as easily could not. That’s the thing about triggers and MLC, no one knew about the trauma hidden within the MLCer, not even themselves. And no one sees the trigger(s) at the time. If she happens to have some trauma inflicted that her wedding uncovered, maybe a trigger; however I think the timeline does seem a bit short.

The talk about having a baby did not trigger this, it just added pressure to her already addled mind. All that responsibility, all that confusion swirling around for her. You can see how she would think she just needs some time and space to sort things out. And so do you, by the way.

I realize the LBS will be stuck for a while, and no one is going to move without a certain amount of understanding of what the h3ll is going on. Remember focusing on you, not her. If you focus on her and her train wreck, you will be drawn in and crash right along with her. That being said, I do believe that information and understanding is very good and will allow you to let go better and maybe even quicker. So, like everything about this, it is a bit of a tightrope to walk here.

I understand what you are saying about couples not having sex when one spouse is having a MLC but this is quite painful for me to accept. Years without any sex ahead of me? I´ve always had a high sex drive. I can wait months but years?

I am glad you understand the pressure and how damaging it would be to her.

Now, sex. “No sex ...quite painful for me to accept”. I understand the questioning attitude, believe me, I do. You will be amazed at what you can accept. Consider this, you are not going to force her, or suggest anything, I think you see the value and need for no pressure. I also see you as an honourable man (me projecting my values), you’re married, and so you will not be seeking company of someone else. Her journey will take as long as it takes. No one knows what turns and twists are in store for her or you. You might be surprised and find she is forthcoming, or that you lose desire, or who knows, all situations are different and yet eerily similar. Don’t dwell on the lack of sex. Those feelings will flit away, if you let them.

I will listen to your advice and not make any decisons for now. But the one thing I can’t do is accept an affair. If that happens and I find out, I simply have to end it and ask her to move out immediately.

Interesting word choice and logic structure. I do tend to very actively listen to what others say. Before I respond, please consider the following:

Something I am going to advise is to be accurate in thoughts, and heart. Really see and speak things accurately. Your feeling, thoughts, and beliefs. This helps push back denial and brings detachment, and a whole lot of other good attributes and traits. I will point out certain things so you can explore if you really mean what you said and in the way you said it.

What we say, what we think, shapes our reality, makes our reality. If you say you can’t do something, your mind will make that so. You can’t.

Most times we actually mean - won’t do something. And that is a huge difference. Won’t places that completely within your control and ability to grow, learn, and change. Very few things are actual can’t. An example - I can’t get pregnant. That is valid.

So, you can probably guess - I can’t accept an affair. At this moment, very true, and very real for you. I do understand that. However, you made vows for better and for worse. Ben, this is the “worse”.

I am not saying you are wrong, or you have to change anything. I am just pointing out something for you to look at, and think about (not rush forward with your feelings). As I said, you will be surprised at what you can, will, accept.

I rambled a bit about this because of this particular sentence and interesting statement of logic.

If that happens and I find out, I simply have to end it...

So if an affair happens and you don’t find out - what then? I know - obviously nothing will happen since you do not know about an affair. Don’t you find that interesting? Your knowledge about an affair would change nothing that happened, so why a different response?

Your perception of the events. The pain, fear, betrayal, emotions, etc... all colour your response. Nothing wrong with any of that - maybe.

I want you to understand many MLCer, and I mean a staggering percentage of them, have affairs. The affair means nothing, the other person, mean nothing. Do not give the affair or the OP any power of you. Do not give the idea of an affair any power over you.

Affairs are a symptom of this crisis. The MLCer is running from their demons, from themselves, and will do all manner of things to avoid looking within. They seek happiness from external sources, not realizing happiness comes from within themselves. They incorrectly equate pleasure with happiness, so all those running behaviours - affairs, spending, drinking, drugs, adrenaline producing activities, etc... all in an unsuccessfully attempt to quiet the unceasing and unrelenting pain they writhe in.

Understanding bring compassion, and brings acceptance. Please do not sell yourself short when it come to acceptance. You will make your reality, and your will limit what you “can” achieve.

But let´s say I was to tell her that I am unhappy with the way things are now and I would like to move on with my life(which is what I´m feeling right now) and I want us to divorce and for her to find a new place - is that really all bad? Could that not make her realize she is losing me and make her change her mind? I´m really not saying that I want to do this as a strategy to get her back, I am fully aware it is very likely it will end between us and we speak no more. But I can´t help but to think it could shock her back to reality. Am I completely wrong?

Blunt version - Yes!

There is a case or two (I have read about) of someone snapping out of this. Extremely remote possibility, virtually no realistic chance.

You may wake her up - for a while, but her unresolved problems will rise again and the second time around is much much worse.

I know you’re unhappy with how things are right now. I care about you, she does not. That is not totally mean on her part, or even on purpose. She can’t (not won’t - can’t) handle her own emotions, never mind your’s or anyone else’s. She is completely overwhelmed with herself and her pain. This entire ride is all emotional for her; her emotions are basically cranked up to 11. She is very much incapable of anything else at the moment.

Something to realize, a MLCer’s mind is like Swiss cheese, so many holes. She will change, and does change, her mind all the time. Constantly.

Let’s just say you could change her mind about this, is the threat of divorce the weapon you want to wield?

You are attempting to allow her, and to encourage her, to change her mind, her feelings, and her view towards you. Basically letting her be. Let her miss you. Let her see that she is still unhappy and you were not around, and not involved. Therefore you are not the cause of her pain and sorrow. She might just look within then.

That is the essence of what you are doing. The focus on you - is for you. It also gives the best chance of her waking up, and seeing the truth - that you are not to blame.

That is why no pressure, no relationship talks, focus on you, GAL, let go, etc...

You and her have been together for nine years. She knows you. She is now projecting her pain onto you. Blaming you. Seeking justifications. Stay out of the line of fire. This is difficult and it takes time and space to achieve.

She right now thinks I would do anything to make things better between us, not because I say that to her but because we established this early on during therapy when he asked us where we both stand.

Yep. And I would guess you wouldn’t have found your way here if you were not like that. We all started that way; would do anything to make this better.

So, are you willing to do anything?

How about to make you better?

Focus on you. You are worth that effort - I hope you see that. You are worthy of all the inner work and what it can achieve - understanding, compassion, forgiveness. Besides, shortcuts don’t really work out all that well.

Her seeing you as being willing to do anything is a pretty typical viewpoint from the WAS. They do believe their altered reality, their inner voice. The happily go about their new fantasy life, thinking you will be right where they left you, as Plan B in case things don’t work out.

You need to show her differently. You need to show you - differently. GAL. That doesn’t mean dating or anything like that. You focus on you and things that maybe you have put off over the last nine years. Relationships and marriages do require compromise and letting go of those single guy activities you once did. Perhaps you want to learn to play guitar, run a marathon, play pool, meet with friends, or build a remote control plane or truck.

A remote control truck - that is one I let go of during my marriage. I still have it, I am think about getting it running again. Nitromethane fueled, 4 wheel drive, 1/16th scale monster truck. It was a blast! It could travel at 85 mph, actual speed, not scale speed.

Two sessions ago she suggested that perhaps she could try moving out for a few months because she feels like she is in a bubble and she thinks by experiencing living alone that might snap her out of this. Now the thing is that she can´t afford to move out so the only solution would be that I pay for a airbnb and she asked if I could put that as a company expense if we were to do so. I could do this in theory but I didn´t say yes or no when she mentioned it. The therapist stepped in and said he advices against that and that they don´t recommend any drastic changes to our day to day lives during counseling. She then just said "ok" and we left it at that. DnJ, what do you think of that suggestion? Again, I would never put any pessure on her to do anything, except if I decide to divorce her, but could us living apart be helpful? I have to admit, the thought of her moving out feels great right now. I would have the place all to myself and it feels like I could really focus on me even more so than now. But me paying for it, I have doubts about that for sure.

I started with this and I’ll end this post with the same, as it is important.

If she wants out, let her do all the heavy lifting. That is the advice for most cases, unless there is abuse or something like that. An other time to push things along is for your financial protection and security. You do not have that problem by the sounds of things with the prenuptial agreement you have in place. However, MLCer usually spend money like crazy; going through it like it is water. That is something you probably will have to figure out, given that it sounds like you provide most things for her.

The only other reason to push a separation or divorce along is because you want it. Something you should wait to ensure your feeling, thoughts, and beliefs all align with. I believe you will find you are more resilient then you thought. Let your feeling settle and wait a while.

DnJ, what do you think of that suggestion?

Living apart can be helpful. It can also be detrimental.

Living apart lets her miss you, see what she lost, etc... It also allows her to fuel her fantasy life. May be good or not.

Best choice is to let her decide what she wants to do. You don’t want the responsibility for however this turn out for her. This is going to get worse before it gets better. Stay clear and stand strong.

If you want to do something, then do it. You accept all the consequences or your choice. That is the same idea you want her to face.

Those were well thought out questions Ben. Ask anything you like. I found it a good idea to run stuff by the people here before doing it in real life - conversations, behaviours, responses, emotions, lawyers, all kinds of things. Just to ensure I was seeing clearly.

Ben, you are starting down a good path. It will be difficult and very rewarding. You are anxious, worried, and looking for signs. You will see small positives signs and make then larger than they are, and will shrink negatives far too much. I’ve been there, and it is perfectly normal and quite ok.

You can get through this.

You will get through this.

DnJ