Thanks neffer. I'm not sure where there was mind reading. Suspicion perhaps and IMO that's involuntary.
Most of the time when I am forced to mind read it is because honest communication is not an option. When someone that you care about leaves all interpretation to your imagination you are left with mind reading.
When someone has justified their action based on your behavior you never really believe that they are beyond those actions again. No matter how much you try to get over it on your own.
After the last post, I sent a scathing series of text messages. I know bad RR. I was still mad. I told her that I was going to take her approach of: Not trying and blaming everything on the other person. I also asked why she could always fall back on blaming my past actions, yet expect me to forget her past transgressions.
Other than this latest blow up things have been rather smooth. A man can only handle this abuse for so long.
Last edited by RR17; 04/26/1909:50 PM.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
I asked W while making coffee this morning when she was returning. W said Sunday. Against best DB standards I remarked, "Do you have a friend up there?" Not in a condemning way, but more off the cuff. Well, W gets immediately mad.
Maybe it was the way you asked rather than what you asked. It was a very passive/aggressive comment. Perhaps you should apologize to her and say "I hope you understand that I still struggle with trust after what happened, and I can't keep my mind from wandering. Perhaps you can tell me what you are doing and who with to help me understand there is nothing to be concerned about. I appreciate you being patient with me on these things."
I believe that is sound advice. Although it sounds a bit NG right now. Right now I am still angry. I believe her blow up was a manipulative attempt to control and that is relationship abuse. She chose to skip any transparency plan to restore trust. She reaps what she sows. And she has not been patient.
As far as I know, she couldn't care less if my mind wanders. To assume so would be mind reading.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
Well, in my "try whatever approach". Anotherstander, I sent a text with your exact words. Yes, a text because I am still pissed and knew that I could never pull it off with the right tone and delivery in person.
Her response:" Thank you for that. I will be happy to tell you what I'm doing and who with."
The fact that I was blamed for the whole pile of crap still resonates but I will try to keep that to my self. My last text yesterday was "Who's husband's arm am I going to push you into this time?"
This resonates with me because I had never said this type of damning statement before. I said plenty of condemning things, but not from the approach of the fact that there was this other guy, but that he was someone else's husband. Perhaps this has stuck because it is one thing that can not be blamed on me. It is, in fact, something that I believe my W will have trouble self-justifying. She violated another woman's marriage. Yes, this is mindreading. It is also all I have. I believe that this dose of reality could do an ole girl some good.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
It is so easy for me to see things now that I am on the other side. I understand now why a transparency plan is a must. I don't think she has any desire to put your mind at ease. I think she views it as that's your problem if you don't trust her.
The person who cares about the relationship the least controls it and I think you are having a real problem accepting that she is calling the shots.
Your main problem is that you have no or at best weak boundaries to protect yourself and this is causing you to suffer.
Not to get too phycological, but I believe that she is using sex as some sort of "hold back". As if it is a way to somehow control the relationship. Remember I shared that at times she said that she believed that I only wanted her for sex. I do believe that she may have unhealthy beliefs regarding sex.
That's very possible, and I agree that it can control the R.
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W refused to a transparency plan after being caught in EA years ago. Says she felt it would send the wrong message that all was Okay in other parts of the MR.
I think this might be a teaching point for others who are newly dealing with a WW. For the wayward to refuse to cooperate in a transparency plan, is very telling of their intentions. They may give all types of excuses, but if her H is not some type of dangerous man where she fears for her life, then there is likely only one reason she refuses to be fully transparent. It's also a sign that she wants to hold the reigns of control.......which won't work in her recovery. The WW has to be willing to end her waywardness, and if she doesn't, then the M doesn't stand much chance to fully heal. She will hold on to that one area where she rebels.
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You see she wants me to forget the past and never bring it up again, while reserving the right to justify her actions with something I may have done in the past. Seems about right.
She can't have both ways.
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Well, in my "try whatever approach". Anotherstander, I sent a text with your exact words. Yes, a text because I am still pissed and knew that I could never pull it off with the right tone and delivery in person.
Her response:" Thank you for that. I will be happy to tell you what I'm doing and who with."
The fact that I was blamed for the whole pile of crap still resonates but I will try to keep that to my self. My last text yesterday was "Who's husband's arm am I going to push you into this time?"
I think Another Stander is gifted in how to word statements. I really do! That's why he is so good with validation. I wish I was the same way. From a distance, one can see why your W would react badly to your question, and calmly she responded to AS's suggested statement. I'm not saying you have no right to feel the way you do. I can just hear my own sharp words if I had been in your shoes! Holding in resentment and hurt can lead us to say something where the other person reacts, and the cycle continues. You are trying to make this work under very tough conditions, and you hold back until when finally saying something.....it may come out a bit sharp for her.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks for the responses. I can't disagree with any of it.
Control is the key issue. IMO, she over responded and turned the blame back at me in order to stop a perceived attack restore control.
I hope to get to a place where I see these things while they happen. I have to allow a breach of boundaries. Much like when a child says nasty things, yet the parent realizes that they are just trying to hurt you and the parent is able to ignore it in context. It's difficult to do with someone that you consider an equal.
In good DB fashion, I have paid attention to her actions over her limited words. I see someone that seeks an R with me. Not just a W that wants to keep the peace until I finally give up. W enjoys doing things with me. IMO if she was just copulating, she would find more reason to avoid spending time together.
I still haven't decided if I want to invite her to a car show in the morning.
Sandi although she never agreed to a plan she has shown signs of being willing to more transparent. W is not one to want to be monitored or judged against a set standard. I hope this makes sense. While dieting together she refuses to step on the scale or measure. She will stick to the diet but for whatever reason, won't quantify any progress. She plays tennis which obviously involves keeping score but there seems to an aversion to being judged by any standard. IDK
BTW, at Easter, my W's sister who has packed on a few lbs lately had her gut grabbed by my MIL and she said: "You need to get rid of this." Wow W told me on the way home. I love my MIL and this seemed odd but I found it insightful. Make me wonder what other inappropriate things may have been experienced in my W's childhood. Things that may have lead to the way she is. Thoughts?
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
I'm reading a lot of excuses in your last post. Your boundaries are your boundaries and you don't have to ignore them for anyone.
I think it's simple, you need to ask yourself if you can live out the remaining years on this planet like you are currently. I don't think anything will change organically. Changes will only be made based on your actions.
I'm reading a lot of excuses in your last post. Your boundaries are your boundaries and you don't have to ignore them for anyone.
I think it's simple, you need to ask yourself if you can live out the remaining years on this planet like you are currently. I don't think anything will change organically. Changes will only be made based on your actions.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding your posts?
Nobody can make you angry. You have to grant them that power. If they say something derogatory, you have a choice. You have this power or should have it.
As for the simple question? Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
I know you want me to leave her LH. I will leave when I'm ready, thank you.
M 53 W 54, M since 98 D15, D19 8/2013 discovered EA, W maintained contact with OM until 10/14 7/2/17 W said she wanted S, 7/25/17 moved out of MBR 12/17 W says moving out 5/18, W still in home.
