Great points that LBS don't/can't see until they are on the other side. The LBS is quick to declare that "happiness comes from within" while they are trying so hard to hold onto the WW for their perceived happiness. The LBS will say "divorce will destroy the children's lives" but when it comes to coparenting they won't coparent in a way that is healthy for the children. Both sides are being selfish yet neither can see the other side.
My ex stayed for a year and a half for the children half heartly trying. Being divorced is 100 times better then being with a spouse that has checked out.
I truly believe that if at BD the LBS truly took the focus off the WW, worked on themselves to become the best version of themselves and made every move with strength the opportunity for recon would be highly probable within 2-5 years.
This rarely happens because the LBS starts spinning out of control and does too much damage as the LBS is on their way out the door.
MarcPA, Bubs, and Harvey. Thank you for helping regain some compassion and clairity. I will re-read your insightful reminders everyday so that I don't make this about me again.
I seem to have a different opinion in regards to placing blame on the LBS. Certainly in some member's cases they were controlling, had anger etc. But there many of us that were always looking to make them happy. And still failed due to their inner past trauma.
My previous long relationship was raped when she was young and always saw me as the enemy. SHe left me for another man, who I read recently comited suicide. I can only think of how much guilt she must have been throwing at this man, making him feel responsible for all her emotional pain. There is so much one can take.
Our common IC told me that the reason the current wife picked me was exactly because she saw me as a father figure, someone who could make her pain go away. But all my efforts failed. Her will was stronger than mine.,
There is a scene in "Midnight Express" where the hero is going around a wheel somewhere in a Turkish prison where most have lost their mind. An intelligent professor / patient explains to him that they are both in the right place, since they are broken machines. It didnt matter that he was intelligent, he had rationalized his failure. The hero snaps and tells him he is not broken, and he knows cause he comes from the factory that makes the machines. (something to that effect) And he leaves.
So in regards to allowing our spouses to find their happiness, I agree, let them go. But dont assume we were the problem in their finding their hapiness
For example read my case below:.
My wife first came on to me and called me first. She had told her friends she would be so happy if went out.
Then her happiness was about her moving in with me. Again her choice when she lost her apartment.
Then she wanted marriage to be happy. Not my choice either.,
Then she was envious of all her friends that had kids. Even though she had gynecological problems I paid a ton of money so we can have a kid. This was her happiness she said.
She wanted me to spend more time with them to be happy. I did just that. Abandoned all my friends. And I feel bad saying this but she had me not talk to my family either.
I paid for IC for her cause she wasnt happy. I also paid for her gym membership cause she wasnt happy. She met another man there. Now she is happy.
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So I kind of disagree with the notion of "finding yourself". As Sandi has mentioned its usually BS to allow them to run into the sunset with OM.
There is this great line by comedian Sebastian Maniscalco when he told his dad he needs to go find himself. His dad told him. "What you say. I find you. You are right here in front of me. Now go get a job. "
B.D in December 2018 Physical Affairs discovered in April 2019 Divorced May 2019 H (me) 49 W (her) 29
Hi gzabetas. I'm not sure if you're referring to my posts, but regarding blame, it was never my intention to assign blame to the LBS. I think in many cases we as partners want what is best for people we allow into our lives and get burned as a result. I also think 'blaming' is a toxic expression of the anger we feel towards people who, in spite of our best efforts, cause us tremendous hurt and devastation in our lives. Blame is pointless anyway. It's a loaded term that just gives 'meaning' to the rage we feel. It distracts us from what should be an understanding of our situation. It enables us to sit in judgement of another person, and makes us feel justified in negative choices we sometimes make as a result. It promotes wallowing in our pain. Often times we blame our selves as well which causes us additional damage. Worst of all, it can keep us from moving on and accepting how little control we have over the other person's circumstance. It's not a good concept.
I think the better way is to re-frame blame into something else. Instead of looking for blame, try to describe it to your self as trying to attain 'an understanding' of the dynamic that led both parties to the situation they find them selves in. It's kind of a Jedi mind trick we can apply on our selves, because it allows us to dump the toxic negativity that comes with the word 'blame'. This of course doesn't really solve our immediate problems. The pain, hurt, disappointment, and especially the fear, are emotions that work HARD against 'understanding', and blame enables us to continue 'feed' those feelings. It's especially cold comfort to someone who just had a bomb dropped into their lives. I know this. When my firs BD happened, the rage, both at my partner, and my self was all consuming. I blamed her, her messed up parents, the guy that raped her a year before we met, her skin condition, and the messed up world we live in. I especially blamed my self the most, and it was eating me alive. But then, I read an interesting story that changed the trajectory of my pain because it illustrated perfectly that 'blaming' just kept putting more and more air into the pain balloon. I needed less air in the balloon. Anyway, here's the story I copied and pasted from another site:
An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy. “It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.” He continued, “The other is good – his is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.” The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?” The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”
It's a powerful story. It teaches us that we can succumb to the negativity, or we can chose to feed the good things that will attract other good things into our lives. Sometimes means a new relationship, or sometimes our old relationship coming back to us in a new context. This is why 'understanding' rather than 'blame' is key, and is a choice that is ultimately up to us to make. I'm not going to pretend that it is an easy choice. I struggle daily with all the negative emotions trying to beat my door down.
Ultimately, the point of 'understanding' is to forgive. To forgive our partner, but also to forgive our selves. Without forgiveness there is no release from the pain. There is just old age filled with regret. Anger, fear, resentment, and blame has never brought happiness, into our lives. I can also guarantee that none of these things have every brought back the partner of anyone who spent time in this forum. I defy you to quote a post where someone said "my fear, anger, and blame brought my partner back and now we're happy!" Am I right? So what is the point of blame anyway?
IHCLACS - I think you earlier posted the lyrics to Don Henley's 'Heart of The matter' which illustrates the person in the song coming to an understanding, and ultimately forgiving their partner. It's funny how I always liked the song, but missed the meaning of it until now. I have to say that I really appreciated you posting it. It helped me to affirm to myself that I am on the right track. That I need to forgive. I hope you don't mind me re-posting it. It's powerful-healing stuff:
I got the call today, I didn't want to hear But I knew that it would come An old, true friend of ours was talkin' on the phone She said you found someone And I thought of all the bad luck And the struggles we went through And how I lost me and you lost you What are those voices outside love's open door Make us throw off our contentment And beg for something more? I'm learning to live without you now But I miss you sometimes The more I know, the less I understand, All the things I thought I knew, I'm learning again I've been tryin' to get down To the heart of the matter But my will gets weak And my thoughts seem to scatter But I think it's about forgiveness Forgiveness Even if, even if you don't love me anymore These times are so uncertain There's a yearning undefined People filled with rage We all need a little tenderness How can love survive in such a graceless age? Ah, the trust and self-assurance that lead to happiness They're the very things we kill, I guess Oh, pride and competition Cannot fill these empty arms And the work I put between us, you know it doesn't keep me warm I'm learning to live with out you now But I miss you, baby And the more I know, the less I understand All the things I thought I'd figured out I have to learn again I've been trying to get down To the heart of the matter But everything changes And my friends seem to scatter But I think it's about forgiveness Forgiveness Even if, even if you don't love me anymore There are people in your life Who've come and gone They let you down You know they've hurt your pride You better put it all behind you baby 'Cause life goes on You keep carryin' that anger It'll eat you up inside baby I've been trying to get down To the heart of the matter But my will gets weak And my thoughts seem to scatter But I think it's about forgiveness Forgiveness Even if, even if you don't love me I've been tryin' to get down To the heart of the matter Because the flesh will get weak And the ashes will scatter So, I'm thinkin' about forgiveness Forgiveness Even if , even if you don't love me Forgiveness, forgiveness, baby Forgiveness, forgiveness Forgiveness, forgiveness Even if, even if you don't love me Forgiveness, forgiveness Forgiveness, forgiveness Forgiveness, forgiveness
Marc there are others as well here on this forum who share the belief that for a relationship to fail it is a 50/50 deal. My take is that even if it takes 2 people to work on the R, it takes one to break it. It really does.
For many of us members here on this site we didnt share the same template relationship, others were more angry and angst driven. I was mature and late in my age so I had worked out all those issues, so hence my surprise at BD.
I agree with your post, and that is what Christianity teaches us as well. I am in the south of Greece and I am half ready to move into a monastery similar to Alyosha in the brothers Karanazov.
I am losing faith in the world, and every time I try to make sense of my partner and their situation I get handed the old statement "look on your side". My recent take is that my side can be sparkling clean and R may still fail.
If our spouse walked into the room one day and said they thought they were Napoleon, would we be really contemplating what we had to do with their mental /emotional breakdown.
You have moved on further than me and are wise, and I really liked your story. One day I hope to get there.
B.D in December 2018 Physical Affairs discovered in April 2019 Divorced May 2019 H (me) 49 W (her) 29
Not at all Marc. Always loved the song, but never really knew the whole meaning myself. Man did it take on a whole new meaning. Especially about how outside influences can throw off our contention.When I got BD back in Oct, I looked it up, started playing and singing it around the house when the W wasn't home as a form of release.. I found it so resonating with my sich, (as im sure everyone else's here) that every single time I got to the part "Even if..Even if.. You don't love me anymore..." I would lose my $hit balling. It still strike a chord with me emotionally now, but im able to get through the whole song.
$hit here comes another panic attack going down 12 years of memories in my mind, and the realtor coming this weekend. I definitely need to do some yoga to bring me back to the present a little better.
