staying the course

[lost8]

Do I ask about contact and confront? She gave me access and said look anytime.

[lost8]

I mean at this point shouldn't I be 100% open with about what I found?

[SteveLW]

Not sure. Impulsiveness rarely works. I was way too impulsive with things. I sat on the naked picture discovery for several weeks before confronting. But in the end I had to.

I think l8, what you have to step back and ask, is what makes you look stronger, more respectable? Is snooping on her phone reading deleted emails strong? Confident? Worthy of respect? Will she view you as being properly self-differentiated? As having a life? As cementing your 180s?

If any of those is no, then I would seriously consider just sitting on it. Also, if you tell her about her discovery she will just go deeper undercover with it. Maybe not what you want at this point.

Also, it very well could be that this email is just part of the process of letting go. A stepping stone. Much like the steps a drug addict must go through. You confronting could blow up all of the progress you have made.

In the end, it is your decision. Personally I think this email is a minor thing. Remember, she is going to try and let him down easy if that is what she is going to do. So likely her answer isn't even honest TO HIM. You never know. This is why snooping rarely helps your sitch.

[lost8]

I agree Steve and just got home and didn’t think it would do any good to confront. I am still learning and I guess not piecing just yet until I know she had broken her ties.

Patience....at every stage is essential.

What you said is what I hope...that this is part of the withdrawal stage. She could easily lie and go see other man whenever she wants but chooses to be with me. We’ll see in time.

[neffer]

Hi man. Ease your mind brother. It´s some how part of the dance. There is no swich to change feelings. And there´s a long way to transit. Adiction is adiction so those feelings come and go. Remember there are cycles everywhere...just let see where you both are going with time.

I agree with Steve, you need to subtle show her your self-determination, your actual identity. Again, it´s a theme of respect basically. Show her where you are standing. YOU are moving forward.

She needs to do some work on herself Lost. And it takes time. That´s why I´m so thankful to have found DB and this forum. It gave me the tools to confront my adictions. It gave me wind for my willness (thank you Steve!). It gave me light. Thank you DBers! Lost, figure a way to help W there, read what Sandi wrote some days ago. No pressure there.

IMHO Steve´s last post is a headshot. From the 1st to the 5th paragraph. All the things I was going to tell you are posted there. Even the lies we make to our APs to make things smoother... Keep that post with you (thank you again Steve).

You have the strength to wait for stronger winds. They will come.

Be patient man, be patient.

[AnotherStander]

AS, I agree. I thought we were, her remorse has been deep and continuous. She has given me access to everything including her money to manage.

I thought we were and that's why I was wondering can piecing occur until she has gone through the full 100% withdrawal. Yes i agree in this day in age you can go very covert.

Her whole attitude has changed about me and us but as you know we can never get inside someones head to know what is exactly going on.

I still have 180s in effect and still do GAL activities but when she was giving so much I felt I needed to give back...it was feeling more genuine.

That was my question, pull back? let it play its course? cover my ars? How hard do I DB at this point. W has been with me every night for the last month and a half, is this the withdrawal stage for her?

Thanks for the clarification, now I see where you are coming from. Since she has given you permission to look at her phone (I wouldn't call it "snooping" as that implies you're doing it without permission) then I would bring it to her attention and ask her about it. Try doing it in a way that is not confrontational or accusatory. Give her a chance to explain herself. And if it is as bad as it sounds, DO NOT give her a free pass on it. Explain to her that you feel betrayed and it's making it very difficult for you to trust her again when she does these things. Speak in "I" language- tell her how it makes you feel rather than attacking her.

[sandi2]

There may be some confusion and some differences of opinions. First, you appear confused about what to do b/c you don't know if you are piecing or not. Here's how I look at it.

The WW has to agree to the H's terms (Tell OM it's over,it was a terrible mistake, she loves her H and wants to work on her M. She ends all contact with OM forever. She agrees to follow the transparency plan her H designs,) She may not feel remorseful at this point, but it is more important that she agrees to the terms and cooperates. The H should explain to her that she will experience strong symptoms of withdrawals as she faces the next few months, and it is important that she understands that being transparent not only helps her H feel more secure, but it helps her to stay on track as she goes through the affair withdrawals. He can also explain how this transparency plan will not be a requirement forever, but for a while her honesty and faithfulness is on the line. (Don't give her time limit.)

IMHO, the period of time the WW is going through her affair withdrawals, is like a bridge to piecing. If she can't get over that bridge, then "piecing" will be fake, and she'll continue having a secret life apart from the M. She may experience depression, insomnia, etc. She may not. It is a difficult thing to get through. It took me four months of hard withdrawals, and then I went through a lot of depression, etc.,.......and I had never met OM in person. This is why I try to emphasize that it is about the fantasy. If she will kill the fantasy, then their is a high probably of having a good MR.

This leads me to her responding to OM's email. Your W and this OM have a shared goal, and it's pretty specific. They plan to wait till their youngest kids turn 18, and then they'll go be together. Do you know what this shared secret goal does for her? It keeps the fantasy alive! Every time she contacts OM or responds to his contact.......it sets her back to the starting line again. Whatever ground she may have gained, will be lost and she'll have to go through those withdrawal symptoms again (if she even went through any at all). It prevents her from truly loving her H the way a W should. It cheats both of you from the relationship you could otherwise experience.

I want to point out something else that I think may be an area of confusion. Your job in the transparency operation is to give her moral and emotional support, encourage her, and...... monitor her activities, especially the messages. She agreed to the transparency plan. It has nothing to do about your "need to snoop". I wish you would get that out of your head. She has to prove herself, and has invited you to look......and you are telling her that you're good and don't need to look. She needs to be accountable, and you are telling her it's not necessary. Yes, it is necessary, otherwise, she won't get through this process. The MR is reconciling, and she's going through withdrawals (hopefully), and that puts the relationship in different status. I think I talked to you once before about the 37 rules and how that changes for the couple who is reconciling/piecing.

The last thing I want to remind you about is your boundaries. Do you have a boundary about her continuing contact with OM? I know one thing you didn't do. You did not insist that she send OM the message about ending the affair. You let it slide. Now, you've discovered one deleted email from about three weeks ago. So, my question is how many times does she contact/respond to OM before you enforce your boundary?

There is plenty of other things to exercise patience. I just don't believe this is one of those things. It is critical that she knows she cannot get away with hidden messages to OM. Your passiveness wants you to turn your head and not say anything about her breaking her agreement to be transparent.

Like many other LBH's, you thought her withdrawals would be over in a couple to three weeks. I think
Steve's sitch may have broken a record, IDK. It was pretty quick......and yours may be quick once she realizes you aren't going to play this game with her. There is so much emotional stuff she has to work through, and so it's kind of difficult to know where one issue is resolved and the healing of another begins. The H can't force her through the process, but he can influence how serious she gets about her efforts. Once she really sees what she will lose......she can get real serious about doing the work to save her M. The H can stick by his boundaries. He can require her to give accountability when lines have been crossed or there is a question about anything. So far, all I can tell about her is that she's apparently showing you some type of emotion that resembles remorse., and apologizing. It may be an act, but I hope it's genuine. I have to wonder since she refused to tell OM to get lost, and she broke NC early into this reconciliation period. .

It's your decision as to how you want to handle things. If you decide not to tell her you know about the email, then I strongly recommend you monitor her much closer in the following weeks. If NC is broken again, you have to address it........or otherwise what is to gain by turning your head and giving her a pass? See what I mean? This entire process is to help her through the affair withdrawals. Not addressing it doesn't help her.

Getting through the affair withdrawals is first.

[Tryhard]

Sandi nails it again

[lost8]

Guys thank you for responding. I am taking all feedback and looking at it as a whole.

I did talk to W the evening that I found the deleted emails. Again the history with my W...has felt neglected her whole life, was sent away from home to train to be a competitive athlete in her teens where she was sexually abused. Has always had self esteem problems due to coaches and mother stressing appearance for her training. And her parents have always been hands off with her, and way different than how I was raised.

I preempt this because my W said she has been thinking about why she has had this A. She broke down and said she has never felt good enough and is afraid of being alone. She said part of the A was driven by drugs since he supplied in the beginning but led to her always being afraid that I will leave her. I'm not making excuses, this was told to me and she said she would do anything to gain my trust again and I told her I have seen how I have not fully given her the confidence to see that I will always be here.

I took two more days and after she said that she doesn't want to go back to the way we were that led to this and I acknowledge my part in our M drifting and committed my self to my 180s as we will soon be in an empty nest sitch and we need to focus on us. She said this is something she had been thinking about what I could do to build her confidence back up.

Then two days ago I said I had been thinking and to gain her trust back she needed to make the call. The one that probably never happened obviously because of the content of the emails. She said she didn't want to talk to him and after a brief discussion let it go. That night we were out and she had another small breakdown and said she would do it. I told her I would appreciate it and I had to be present.

So here we are and like I said am taking the recent posts to heart, Neffer said this is part of the withdrawal process and breaking the addiction, it won't happen overnight but if I am the man she wants to be with she will break free with my help. AS, yes I have been given access and do not look often, like it has been weeks but will continue to move forward with my eyes wide open. And Sandi, I am taking my opportunities to set boundaries. I told my W at the time of that we needed her to make her call that we will never have the trust in each other if this doesn't happen. I told W this would either be her last lie by telling OM that this was all a mistake and to NC or would be her first 100% truthful statement that will relieve herself of having to live this lie and the start of regaining my trust.

Still taking baby steps and non of this was done be either of us with any anger.

[sandi2]

I did talk to W the evening that I found the deleted emails. Again the history with my W...has felt neglected her whole life, was sent away from home to train to be a competitive athlete in her teens where she was sexually abused. Has always had self esteem problems due to coaches and mother stressing appearance for her training. And her parents have always been hands off with her, and way different than how I was raised.

What does all of that^^^^^^^ have to do with her breaking NC to OM? To me, it sounds as if she uses this history of poor self esteem as the overall crutch. As long as she can excuse her actions, she won't accept responsibility.

I just want you to understand that you have to be like an overseer while she's going through withdrawals, And, she hasn't really started that process until she tells OM the A has ended. The past three or four weeks have been wasted, as for as any withdrawals are concerned. Why? B/c that last email kept the EA alive for her, so she is set back at square one.

You don't have to check her messages every day, but I suggest you look several times per week. If she can make the emotional break from her XH, then hopefully, she'll make progress. Once she gets through the withdrawals. maybe she'll be more willing to see a therapist.