Well I did some snooping, not good I know but anyways....
I checked his cell phone. In my previous post I said that H came home early on Sunday morning from OW. Well she called him about 8 times in a row while he was on his way home and he didn't answer the calls. They must have had a fight. Then remember I said she called while we were at his friends house that afternoon? Well she left a text message, it said: "I am ready to have a serious talk now, call me." That is when H left for 20 minutes to call her.
When he came back he hugged me and was angry.
Then that night he asked me a couple of questions that I found strange - he asked me if I was okay with things now, or if I was still sad. I said of course I am still sad. Then later he asked me if I would be okay without him yet.(ie - moving out) I said I have no control over what you do, but I don't want you to move out. He said he doesn't want to move out either.
After my snooping it makes sense now. OW must be putting pressure on him about H living at home with me or their relationship. Maybe she is upset cause he spent most of the weekend with me instead of her. Or maybe she found the dinner receipts I left in the car (haha). Of course I am just ASSuming.
Yesterday H told me he wanted to sign up our son for a year long program by our house. I said okay, but then I asked him why he would do this? Are we still going to be living in the area in one year? H said he knew I would question it, he asked why wouldn't we be there in one year?
I said that if we divorce we won't be able to afford the house and will have to move. He asked me what was my rush -I then said that he has to crazy if he thinks that things are going to continue the way they are for another year!! I told him that wouldn't be fair to anyone.
H then commented that I want this situation to be over, one way or the other. I said no, but it can't continue forever... Then H said that nothing has changed between him and OW, that he isn't ready financially or emotionally to make a decision yet. H also said that things haven't changed between us - he said, bottom line is that he doesn't feel the same way about me anymore, and that he wouldn't be moving backwards. I told him that I am not telling him to 'move backwards', but to move forwards to something new. H said that right now he is in limbo.
Then he suggested we take our son to the movies that night and we ended the call.
I was very upset, I understand that he isn't ready yet...but I wanted him to also understand that he doesn't have forever to decide. I want him to understand what the consequences will be if we divorce - he doesn't get it...he says we are separated now, but in reality we still function like a married couple in EVERY way. He needs to realize that things will change drastically.
I debated on sending him an email, there were some things I wanted to clarify, also I wanted him to start thinking about the reality of us being divorced - ie how things would change. I sent him this email....
"You mentioned yesterday that us being so close is just prolonging the agony, and will make things harder for us. That is not true. The agony is yet to come. This situation is very difficult for both of us, but if you think that it will get easier if we divorce, you are very wrong. Divorce will be 10 times more painful than this, and the pain will last for years. We will not only be hurting ourselves, but our families will be hurting too. Most importantly our son will suffer because of this. He finally let himself trust us to be his parents and be a family together. He will lose that and I know he will be hurt and feel even more rejected than he already does cause of his biological parents. I am not telling you this stuff to make you feel guilty, I am telling you cause it is reality, and according to you, we will have to face it soon. I have educated myself quite a bit over the past few months, and I have read about the effects of divorce on children and families. It is not pretty.
Right now we are living in limbo like you said. I am trying to be patient and be your friend through all of this, but sometimes it just really hurts (like last night). I am sorry I got so upset.
I know you are not ready to make any decisions yet, but you need to start looking at the consequences, good and bad about either decision. You made me very angry today when you said you are not 'moving backwards'. A decision to rebuild our marriage is not 'moving backwards'. It is starting a new relationship. I am sorry you feel that way.
You have mentioned lately that we won't work out because I won't get over what you have done. That is absurd. Why? Because your friends tell you so? They don't even know me, and neither of them have been married with a home and a child. So don't assume things about me, that is partly what got us into this situation isn't it? I know I can forgive you because I Understand WHY it happened. I understand how you felt and your perspective. I have also learned alot about affairs and relationships. I know that I will forgive you and we could be happy again.
But I guess none of this matters if you really don't want to give us a new chance. That makes me very sad. We should talk about how we are going to handle things - the house, furniture, financials, etc... So at least then if it does happen we are prepared. What do you think?"
When I got home, he was VERY nice to me, I thought maybe he hadn't read the email - I figured he would be mad.. So I asked him if he read it. He said yes (quietly, he seemed sad). I dropped the subject and we went to the movies. Afterwards, he went downstairs to use the computer, instead of following him as usual, I stayed in our room. He finally came upstairs and we went to bed.
He asked me if I still love him? I said yes, very much so. He said but you didn't love me before (quietly). I said that is not true, I have always loved you, I am sorry it seemed like I didn't, to you. Then we went to sleep.
I noticed his cell was on the charger that night - that means no calls to or from OW. I know that she is pressuring him, which means I should back off. I have started to do this (last night I didn't stay in the room with him as usual). I won't initiate any more R talks for a while, I will let OW drive him away.... if she is already starting to pressure him I know I can outlast it...
I think by telling him that we need to start talking about separating our stuff etc... I am showing him that I will not be waiting around for him and that if he really wants to divorce I won't stop him. He is supposed to see her tonight, we will see if anything happens....
Wow loveforever, that was a wonderful letter!! I might use it as a reference when it comes time for me to tell him what I am feeling about this too. I think you did a good job and were very strong!! Hopefully he will start to take you seriously now and make a choice!!
I read your thread all the time....girl I swear I don't know how you do it. This guy must have some kind of redeeming quality you don't talk much about, because you bend over backwards for him.
How you continue to do everything to facilitate his R with the OW amazes me. He gets to hide it from anyone who would shame him for it, and gets to look like a family man too.
I am a guy. I actually get kinda angry when I read what he is doing to you. His indecisiveness kills me. His need for constant reassurance from you tells me he isn't very secure period. You alluded to his meds, maybe something to do with that.
I guess I just wanted to tell you that I admire your ability to slog through all of this. There aren't very many posters here that write so many details, and for some reason I can really feel your sitch. You are an amazing woman.
2much, I am glad that my email might help you in the future. Sinjin, it really means a lot to me that you are angry on my behalf, it amazes me how even though we are all strangers, we are able to give support to one another.
My h's indecisiveness is slowly driving me nuts. Believe me there have been many times when I want to kick his ass and make him face reality. But then I think about what I have learned here, and what my goals are, and somehow I find patience and keep on going.
My H's family (very small) all know about it. Actually I had to get his mom to shut up about it cause she was screaming at him every day (we live in the same house). It was getting to the point that H didn't want to come inside because of her. His brother also laid into him at a wedding. However this was not helping me, H just accused me of turning his family against him. I told him that he needs to talk to them and see that I am not saying anything to them, that they have eyes and brains. He did, and realized that I wasn't plotting behind his back or anything and apoligized to me. I haven't told anyone in my family, but that is because my family can be very judgemental, I don't want to air all of the reasons we got to this point to them, so I choose not to tell them anything. This is also in my best interest, because if H and I do work things out, I don't want there to be problems between my family and him.
He is extremely insecure and actually feels unworthy of love. It's cliche I know, but he had a lot of issues in his childhood that have made him feel this way, although he will deny it. I have read a lot about depression and understand the root causes of his attitude and see how he got to be this way, as well as how it contributed to the breakdown of our R.
Even if this affair crap is over, we will then have to deal with his depression. Nonetheless, it is not my problem to deal with, it is something that he has to face. I will support him anyway I can, if I am still around when it happens.
I know my posts are long and detailed, that's cause I need to get it out, it helps me organize my thoughts, I also tend to forget things that were said, and when they were said. So it helps to be able to go back and remember. It makes me feel a lot better to know that you guys actually take the time to read them and respond. I don't feel so alone in this disaster....
I want you to know that I agree with sinjin. You are one h*** of a woman. ( I mean that as a good thing). I don't know how you do it. Even when I haven't had time to post to the board, I would check out you posts to help keep my strenth up. Just knowint that you are being a strong as you are has helped me.
I think that setting donw and talking about all the things that will change if yall go though the big D. Is a good ideal. It will show H what will change and maybe help you get a gameplan to fall on just in case.
I know one of the things that made me feal better, was setting down and making a budjet and seeing that I can make it on my own if I have to. (granted I don't have kids, and I am thinkful for that right now, because I wouldn't want them to go though this pain) But I was still scarad that I couldn't do it. But by working it out and knowing that it is possible has helped make me feal stronger as a person. I feel less dependant on H.
Maybe working on what would have to be changed if one of you left will make H see the whole picture right now. But it is also a gamble because he might see that he could make it on his own. (Kinda of like I did) And deciede to go on his own.
It is something that you have to really think on.
Keep up the great job. It is very encouring to me and others.
Hi, Sorry I haven't posted yet this week, I am off work this week and I usually don't like to post from home in case H sees me.
Kitkat - I have already done a budget for us if we split - financially, H will be the one who is screwed, not me, I make more cash, I can always move back in with my parents. H will have to be responsible for our son and his mom - that means a 3 bedroom apartment, he will also have to pay a lot more - car, gas, internet, food, cable etc.. All things that we now share, that I will get for free at my parents, while he will have to scrape together money to keep... So it will be in my best interest to have this conversation when the time is right
A lot of stuff happened, some the same as usual but also a few more positives. This will be a long post since it will cover several days....
Friday night, H went out with OW. At around 2 am he sent me a text message, it said:
"hope you are okay, see you in the morning, love H" (he used his pet name)
I couldn't believe he said 'love H'. I sent him a reply and told him that I missed him and would see him in the morning. Well Saturday morning he still didn't show up, so around 12 I went shopping. He called me on my cell but I missed it. I thought about calling him back, but decided to wait awhile. 10 mins later he called again, so I answered. He asked me why I hadn't phoned him. I said I was busy. He asked me if I would be home soon, I said yes and he said he would meet me there.
We were sitting on the couch watching tv, and he said that he missed me last night. Then he said "what am I doing, I don't know what I am doing anymore, I am so confused." I hugged him and replied that I think he can find everything he is looking for right here. He said that if all of this stuff hadn't happened, he would be so in love with me now. (wow). We continued to watch tv for a bit, then we went downstairs to use the computer.
While we were there he pulled me close and told me that since my brother's wedding, instead of us separating more, we are so much closer. He said things are better than ever between us. I agreed. Then he told me that he has been feeling this way for a while but he didn't want to tell me cause he didn't want to get my hopes up.
Then we had the following conversation:
H: Can I tell you something?
Me: Yes
H: When I am with her, I really feel like I am in love with her. But at the same time I miss you so much. I told OW.
Me: Did she get mad at you?
H: Yes
Me: I guess she doesn't want you to be honest about your feelings.
Did you tell her that we still ML?
H: NO!
Me: Then she would get really mad huh?
H: If she knew the truth, then this whole thing would be over cause she would end it.
Me: Well you need to tell her or else...(H interupts me here)
H: Or else you will tell her?
Me: NO, I was going to say or else you could have a breakdown again from the guilt.
H: I know.
Me: Are you going out with OW again tonight.
H: I have to.
Me: You have to? Isn't this about you doing what you WANT to do, not what you HAVE to do?
H just gave me an exasperated look and shrugged his shoulders.
Then he asked me if I would like to have dinner at a really nice restaurant with him tommorow (Sunday). I said sure. He told me he would try to send me a message at night. I said I would like that.
I was really happy after this conversation. I came out sounding like the understanding one. I showed him that he doesn't need to be afraid to be honest about his feelings with me. Also, he admitted that he was getting closer to me.
That night he sent me the following message:
Have a good night, Luv u.
I sent him a reply and told him I loved him too.
Sunday
I got ready and wore a really sexy outfit, one that I never wore before. When H got home, he looked at me and was speechless, he grabbed me and told me he was thinking about me all day, and that he knew I would look hot. We ML and H asked me if I wanted to go to a motel with him after dinner. I said sure. I felt like I had taken over the role of the OW. I am the one he is sneaking around with...H told me he had to make a phone call so we wouldn't be disturbed later...But OW still called during dinner, H ignored the phone...
Dinner was great, I asked H if he got my reply last night, he said no? (I wonder if OW saw it and deleted it?- I hope so....) H admitted that he has to send the messages quickly - while OW is in the bathroom etc... I just gave him a look like he was pathetic and shook my head...
After dinner we went for a few drinks and things turned a bit. H brought up some stuff and tried to explain WHY he had fallen out of love with me in the first place etc... I tried to validate, but I had to get some points in. We didn't end up going to the motel, but we cuddled at home in our bed.
Monday
I have taken the whole week off to spend some time with our son. H took mon, tues, wed off. (I am sure OW hates that...too bad). On monday we went exploring. H was kind of distant, then in the car on the way home, he kept making smart remarks. I tried to ignore them, but he didn't stop. At home the attitude continued. I was prepared for it cause whenever H admits his true feelings about us, he backs off like he is scared and wants me to know that things are not yet okay. I find this to be very immature, and I called him on it. I told him that he seems to be angry at me again even though I haven't done anything. I told him I was sorry that he was in a bad mood and I left to go to sleep instead of waiting for him.
Of course he eventually came to the room.
Tuesday
We took our son and other nephews to a fair. It was fun and tiring. We were there the whole day and didn't really interact too much. When we got home, I saw that his laptop was logged on and I did some snooping. I read some emails between him and OW. It was painful, but also enlightening:
They refer to each other as 'my wife' and 'my husband'. That one PISSES me off!! They are both F&(&*(&ed in the head. She also calls him 'honeybunny' - how original.
He sent her an email about 3 weeks ago and told her that things are not going to work out between them, and she knew that anyways. He said that although they are similar in many ways, they are also different. He said that he hopes she will one day look back at their relationship fondly. She replied with a sarcastic remark (Oh oh trouble in lala land?)
Another email said that she was going out with the girls on friday instead of him. He wrote back angrily saying that she takes him for granted.
Another email said that he heard her talking about some other guy. She denied it. Then he told he that he lied about getting back together with me, that he almost slept in the room with me cause he was so mad at her, but then he didn't cause he loves her so much.
-This email had me almost laughing out of my chair. What bullshit - he ALWAYS sleeps in the room with me. Looks like H is using our relationship as leverage with OW - if she pisses him off he threatens to get back together with me.
These emails kinda made me sick - there relationship is sooo immature. It makes me feel confident that they will NOT work out. She is a little skank who I know will cheat on him, especially when she finds out that he has been lying and cheating with me the whole time, they are already having trust issues, and it seems that H is not as important to her as he thinks he is...
As I write this, it is Wednesday and H is out with OW....The weekend has renewed my determination to ride this out a little longer. Hopefully I can keep up the role of the "OW". I just have to remember not to get too get involved with H and OW, to be more detached. I was very tempted these past 2 days to tell H what I read on his laptop, especially the 'husband, wife' bit, but I haven't, I will store it in my mind for future reference.
I will just wait and let OW get fed up with H, and maybe make a few more hints of my own - to leave or plan for the D etc....I see H as being on his way back to me - but he is fighting it every step of the way...
thanks for reading.... Tune in next time for more updates (hahaha)...
Friday night he usually goes out with OW, but he didn't we stayed home and he suggested we get a bottle of wine and rent some movies. It was nice. I checked his phone and OW sent him this text message:
I am sorry that you are pushing me away, I love you very much.
He sent her one too: Please understand that I am very confused right now, but I do love you too.
On Saturday I asked him why he didn't go out on Friday. He said that he didn't feel like it, that he wanted to stay home with us. Then he asked me if I think that he and OW are having trouble? I said I don't know, are you? He said no, but that it was inevitable. I asked him what he meant by that. He said because she is going to want more from him. I asked him if she is pressuring him, he just shrugged his shoulders. WOW, it's true that it doesn't matter what you say, they need to figure it out on their own. I told him at the beginning (6 months ago) that this would start to happen, well good, let her keep pressuring him.
That being said, he went out with her on Saturday night, no text messages On Sunday he told me that he missed me very much, but that he didn't get a chance to send me any messages.
Sunday evening my parents and my brother and friends came over for dinner, it was fun then at night the two of us went out... H told me that he feels much closer to me than he did a month ago, he also said he is scared that he is starting to fall for me again, that he doesn't want to cause then he will be even more torn...
D'bing is working to make him see that he can be happy with me too. Being his friend and lover has worked out good for us, so far. Hopefully, OW will continue to pressure him, and I will keep working on being the one he wants to be with. Although it is hard to keep the balance. I don't want him to get comfortable and think that he can cake-eat for too much longer. I know that balance has shifted in my favour, and although I saw all of this coming, H is only now started to understand what I have been telling him about OW and how their situation is leading to nowhere...
Please keep your figures crossed for me, over the next few weeks, I hope H will keep getting closer to me, that I won't need to resort to anything drastic, like moving out etc... to make him choose...
The past few days were good, H and I are spending more time together and with our son. I forgot to mention that on the weekend H told me that he had a birthday present in the car for our son from 'someone'. I got REALLY upset. He said it has been sitting there for a couple of weeks, he wasn't sure what to do with it and wanted to check with me first.
I didn't say anything for awhile. Then I asked why the hell was OW buying OUR son a gift? She only met him once at the movies and they had minimal interaction. What did she think? Did she think that our family accepts what they are doing? Does she think that everyone will believe that she is a 'good' person because she bought our son a gift? Does she think I would accept anything in my house from her? How would we explain to our son why a complete stranger is buying him gifts? Total disrespect or stupidity? WTF? H told me that he didn't know she would buy him anything. He had just mentioned that it was his birthday. He says that he never told OW that she could or couldn't buy things for our son. Well duh... Isn't it kind of obvious that she should know that? I could understand if she was part of our son's life, or if our families and I accepted their relationship. But that is not the case at all. They are having an affair - it's immoral and basically destroying our family. Anyways H said that he would give it to our son, but just say that he got it. I said fine.
On monday I checked his phone and there was a text message from OW - it said:
"Baby, please don't doubt me, you know you are the only one for me."
H didn't reply to it. His calls to her are still often, but she is calling WAY more than him. Also they are much shorter than usual...
On tuesday night, H told me that he was going to a baseball game with a co-worker on Wednesday (his night with OW). I asked him if he was going out afterwards. He said no, cause he had to drive his co-worker back and it would be late. I didn't buy this because he has left to go out with OW late many times. If he wanted to see her he would go out no matter what the time. But I didn't comment, I just said okay and that i would see him afterwards.
I went shopping while he was out with his coworker. He left a message on my cell, telling me he was going to the stadium and to call him if I needed to. It made me smile that he was thinking of me. When he got home he suggested we go out for a few drinks. H ended up talking about some old issues - ones I didn't even know existed in him mind. I did a good job of listening and validating for a while. But then I got defensive, we ended up arguing. Even though he was mad he was still stayed close to me and was hugging me and holding my hand. Strange.
H told me that him and OW have been fighting because of me and his feelings towards me. He said that he has been trying to distance himself from her because he wants to spend more time with me, but because of our argument he is questioning why he should even bother since 'we aren't going to work out anyways'. I know that he is just looking for excuses to end us, so I have to remember to react to his accusations differently and not so defensively. I don't want to read too much into the argument, it made me sad cause he obviously still has a lot of things to sort out in his head about me and us, plus he was drunk.
This morning we showered together and were very close, he also suggested we go out with our son tonight. So obviously he wasn't serious last night about ending us.
I hope I have the strength to stay the course, I can feel him teetering on the fence, I have to be careful not to give him a reason to land on her side, although I realize that if that is where he wants to be, he will find a way to get there regardless....
On Thursday night we went to the fair with our son, while we were there H was on his phone quite a bit. Later that night I checked his text messages:
H to OW: I called you but no answer, you must be too busy out partying with your friends, or you just don't want to talk to me.
OW to H: Whatever, you are the one pushing me away.
On Friday night H told me he was going out, cause he hasn't 'gone out' in a while. In otherwords he hadn't seen OW for over a week (the longest time since this started). Before he left he hugged me tight, then he came back and kissed me, he kept finding reasons to linger. Finally he left. He called me three times while he was out with her.
On Saturday, I was a bit cautious cause I figured that they would have made up and he would be pushing me away, but that wasn't the case. H came home early and said that he was going to stay out longer with OW, but he knew that I like to eat with him so he came home to see me. We got had a really late breakfast.
H told me that he was going out again that night, but he had to go early. I asked him what time was 'early'. He said around 7pm. Then he said that he wanted to spend the day with me on Sunday and we could go to the fair and go shopping at the booths etc... I said I would like that. Then he said that he wanted to have dinner with me tonight before he left to go out. I said sure.
H came home around 6:30, we went to Red Lobster. He suggested we order wine. By the time we were eating it was around 7:30. H got a phone call, it was OW, but he ignored it. Then he mentioned to me that he was actually supposed to be 'there' at 7pm. I commented that I would dump him if he did that to me. We started laughing at the absurdity of it. Then H told me that 2 months ago, he would have left right away to be with her, but that now he is enjoying spending time with me, so he isn't going to rush to be with her. I asked him what reason he was going to give to her for being late? He said he would tell her that he was having dinner. I didn't push to find out if he would mention it was with me...We didn't end up leaving the restaurant until 8:30, which means that he arrived at OW 2 hours late!! (ha!) He called me twice that night.
Early Sunday morning, there was an emergency at his brothers house. My sister-in-law asked if I could get her kids and take care of them for a while. I said sure. I called my H, he said he was on his way there. He got there the same time as me. He hugged me and thanked me for helping.
When there is a problem, he knows that he can count on my support, that he can turn to me, I doubt he can say the same thing for party-girl OW....
We didn't end up having time to go shopping at the fair, so we went for drinks instead. We had a good time. H told me that he understands a lot more about our relationship and his depression. He said after learning what he has learned that he wishes he had never strayed. But he also said that he wishes he was sure of his feelings, like he was a few months ago. I asked what was he sure of then? He said that he was sure he didn't want to be with me then. But now he is not sure of anything. I am glad that he is admitting his feelings to me, and I am glad that he is no longer convinced that his feelings for me are gone...moving in the right direction...slowly....
Hopefully he will start to take you seriously now and make a choice!!
