thanks almost40, I think it helps to compare notes, I know we are dealing with different people, but there are many similarities, maybe we can get ideas from each other. If not, at least it helps to know that we are not alone.
I have noticed with my H, that he is moving in the right direction, but he still repeats the same questions and comments over and over, and I have to be consistent in my answers. He has stopped asking some of the questions, and has added new ones. I think that he still has many unresolved things in his mind, that is why he keeps asking them. When I give him an answer, he needs to hear it over and over until he can accept it or resolve it in his mind. Then he stops asking.
It can be very frustrating cause it makes me feel like we have made no progress. But I guess I need to step back and look at which questions he has stopped asking (progress), which ones he keeps asking (work on better answers),
and look at the new questions (progress). Maybe I will summarize them and post the ones I need more help with here.
On with the saga.....
Thursday night
He took our son to the zoo while I was at work. We met at home, he came straight to me and hugged me, he told me that he missed me today, that he kept remembering the last time he went to the zoo with me and our son. He said he wished I was there with them.
Our conversation:
H: What happens if we get back together and try again and it doesn't work? Won't we have wasted so many years?
Me: What if we don't try, and go our separate ways only to find out down the road that we really should be together? We would have spent all that time apart, when we could have been together and started our family, would that be a waste?
H: Yes it would be.
Me: I think if we can work things out, that we won't ever be in this situation again cause our relationship has changed, we understand each other better now, and we are actually communicating right?
H: That's true.
He told me that he wants to go to my cousin's party on Saturday, that he thinks it would be a good idea (when the party was mentioned 2 months ago, he said NO WAY.) He told me he would try not to cancel (not sure if he means because he might change his mind or because of plans with OW). I said sure, I would like to go with him.
We went to a festival to watch the fireworks later that night. It was fun. We came home and got ready for bed.
He told me that he had tried to get back the old feelings for me but it isn't working. I told him that it will take time, it won't happen overnight. I also told him that although he thinks he is trying, he can't truly fall back in love with me if OW is still in the picture. He can't concentrate fully on our R if she is still meeting his emotional needs. He said he understands what I am saying.
I said that instead of thinking of how happy he is with her, he should think how happy he will be without me. I told him that if he breaks up with her he will have a broken heart and be sad for a while, but nothing else in his life will be affected. If he breaks up with me, he will still be sad and EVERYTHING in his life will change.
I told him that even though we are 'separated' , nothing has really changed because I am still here, and we still act like a married couple in many ways. If we divorce, we will no longer live in our home - I tried to continue with examples, but he cut me off and said 'okay I get it'. So I didn't push. I know he will bring this up again, so I will get another chance to continue then...
I haven't posted for this week cause it was just more of the same, I didn't really see any progress. There were a few things:
We went to a party together on the weekend, he wasn't in a good mood, he was angry that I looked so 'hot' now that we are 'broken up'. He said that he misses me, that he wished that we had worked on our problems last summer, that maybe we could have fixed things etc....he seemed bitter. After the party he made me drop him off at a coffee shop (he was supposed to go out with OW). I went home, he called me an hour later to make sure I was okay. He told me that he has just been walking around for the past hour. He said he is very confused and upset. I told him that I could go get him if he wanted, but he said no, he would see me later.
Since then he has been kind of distant and angry. H asked me a few times if I would take him back. I replied yes I would every time. Then a few days later he said that even though I said I would take him back, I would never be able to get over what he has done, so what is the point. I told him that was not true, I understand WHY it happened and HOW we got to this point. I told him that it would take time to heal etc... but that I know I would be able to.
On Wed he went out with OW, when he came home he hugged me and wouldn't let go. He asked me to take a shower with him and he looked very sad. After work, he came over and hugged me, then we had the following conversation, some of it is similar to previous conversations:
H: OW gets mad when I hug you or am close to you. Me: Do you like to hug me? H: Yes Me: So then, hug me. Do you tell her that we are still close? H: Not anymore cause she gets mad. Me: So you are lying to her? H: Yes Me: You two have such a great relationship.
We looked at each other and he said he knew I would say that, and we started laughing, then he started tickling me.
Later the conversation continued:
H: I am not allowed to go on dates with you either. Me: Not 'allowed' to? You let her tell you what you can or cannot do? H: NO!! Me: You know, she can feel jealous, but she doesn't have the right to tell you what to do, you told her that you can't make her any promises, so why is she making demands? H: I don't tell her we go out cause I don't want to fight with her all the time.
I didn't say anything more, but he has mentioned OW's anger before. I will continue to make it sound like she is being pushy and making decision for him (he hates that). Also I will tell him that he should be doing what makes HIM happy. if he wants to spend time with me then he should regardless of what OW says - he shouldn't have to hide it from her, if she can't accept it then maybe she should leave!
We were talking about one of his friends who is dating a guy that got his ex - girl pregnant. She caught them together. I said that she shouldn't stay with him. I said his ex will always be part of his life cause of the baby and if he has feelings for her then he will continue to cheat with her. H looked at me and said, so you think she should break up with him, but you won't do the same? I said he can't compare our R to theirs. I said we are married, and I am the one that was here first. And then I said - your b^$^$ch isn't pregant is she? He said no, so then I said 'no comparison'.
H asked me if I was still on the pill. I said yes. He asked me if I would try to get pregnant to keep him. I laughed and said NO, I am not pathetic or desparate. Why would I want to force you to be with me if you don't want to be. H said that if I did get pregnant, he would have to end it with OW, he said that he wouldn't continue to be with both of us....
I commented that it bothers me that he would be willing to work on our R if a baby was involved, but that he won't do the same even though we have our custodial son. He said that it is not the same thing. I said yes, it is. Us divorcing will have the same effect on him as if he was our natural child. He agreed, but said that his feelings towards me would be different if WE had a child together.
He then commented that it was my fault we didn't have one anyways. He continues to blame me, even though I remind him every time that he agreed to wait. This is one of the main sore spots in our R. I told him that he needs to stop blaming me, accept that it was both our decisions. But I don't think he is ready to believe that yet.
I am not pushing anything, just trying to spend fun time with him as much as possible, and avoiding him when he is in a bad mood. I will continue to point out positives in our relationship and the negative things in his R with OW, but very subtley of course. I know he eventually listens cause he brings them up himself later.....
It is sounding like you are doing a good job. When he is in a bad mood and you are trying to avoid him. That would be a great time to do things for your self. Treat your self to a dinner or a cup of coffee. Go window shopping anything to get out and moving.
Keep us posted, I will check in when I can. This month has be a bit busy for me. I have start doing something for me, and that means I have training classe and business meetings twice a week. Plus H plant is on shutdown so I have been making myslef availbe in case he wants to do something.
Well it's been over a week since I last posted. My brother's wedding was last weekend. This was supposed to be the last event that we went to pretending that all was okay. He mentioned to me a few times before that he was nervous about what was going to happen. Originally we decided that we would let our families and friends know we were separated after the wedding. However, my mom's health is not good, so I told H that I wasn't going to say anything to my parents, but he could tell whoever he wanted to. He had said that after the wedding one of us should move out. I told him that if he wanted to leave he could.
Well the wedding day itself was good, everyone was complimenting me on my sexy outfit, and saying what a handsome couple we make (I know H loves this). But then in the evening, his brother got drunk, and started lecturing him on 'morals' and telling him that he was stupid and that he needs to keep his 'urges' to himself etc... Of course H got really pissed - His brother is a big time womanizer and alcoholic. He thinks that just because he isn't actually leaving his wife that he somehow has more morals than my H?? He started actually pushing my H, and then I stepped in and told his brother to stay out of our R, that he was making things worse.
After when we went home, H asked me to go for a drink with him. He was really upset. Then he got angry at me because my brother invited his brother in the first place. Then he got mad cause he thinks I have been telling his brother stuff about us, making H out to be a bad guy and me the victim. This is absolutly untrue. His mom is the one who has been telling his brothers about H's behaviour, not ME!! I don't know what she has been saying to them, probably just the basics and they are assuming the rest... He of course doesn't believe me and he told me that he had been seriously thinking about coming back to our marriage, but that something happens everytime that makes him go back to OW.
Great, so his brother does something and it's my fault? His mother does something and it's my fault too? I told him that I am not responsible for his family and their actions. I told him that if he doesn't want them to judge him, he should tell them the whole story. But he said no, that it is none of their business, why should he explain anything to them. I said fine. But don't blame me anymore.
Of course everytime he thinks of coming back something stops him. That is because he is LOOKING for reasons to stay with OW instead of me - any and everything that will justify what he is doing. I told him this the next day but he just shrugged it off.
2 weeks ago he told me that he was going to break up with OW, to give him a month. Then the next day he changed his mind and ever since then he has been highly irritable and looking for fights. It's like he scared himself and is pulling back. I recognize this and so I haven't pursued him or put any pressure on.
I think my backing off has helped. On Saturday night we were driving back to our house and I asked him if he was going out at night. He said, yes, I guess so - he sounded like he HAD to go. He leaned over and hugged me and kissed me. Then he squeezed my hand and said he was sorry. I said me too.
We got home and played video games. Every time the game finished he would look at his watch and say 'one more'. We ended up playing for 1/2hour and then he said he better get going now. I said okay. The next day he told me he feels bad when I am alone (well maybe if you stayed with me instead of going out with OW duh!!). I told him I know he feels bad. He asked me if I wanted to be with him? I said yes, he said 'so that means you want me to leave her huh?'. I just hugged him back.
That night he asked me to go for a drink with him. We had an okay time - no R talk. At home he told me that he was going to sleep on the couch. I said goodnight. But instead of going to our room I went downstairs and played games on the computer. After about 20 mins he shows up downstairs, laughs and tells me I am addicted then says goodnight again. - Why did he need to see what I was doing? What difference did it make to him that I wasn't going to bed? I guess it was a 180 since we always go to sleep together at the same time. He ended up coming to the room around 4am.
The next day he didn't call me once at work. I wanted to call him but stopped myself. At around 4:30 he called me on his way to the gym. He told me that it was raining and he felt bad cause he couldn't pick me from the train station. He told me to take a cab so I wouldn't get wet. I told him okay and thanks for the suggestion. For the past 2 months it has been raining at least 10 times after work and I have gotten soaked walking home. He never bothered to call me those times - why now?
Yesterday our son was at his biological mothers house for the night. I suggested we go out for dinner since there was nothing cooked at home. He agreed, we went for chinese buffet - unfortunately it was pretty gross, we both said we wouldn't go back to that restaurant again and that we need to find a new buffet place (funny since we aren't supposed to be eating out together huh?). Then we went home and watched Seinfeld.
After he got up and said okay, I am leaving now. I couldn't help it I got pissed and left the room. (He caught me off guard). I went outside for a smoke, he came out after and asked me what was wrong. I said nothing, that I just wasn't expecting him to go out. I told him I wasn't looking forward to sleeping alone again tonight. He hugged me and said but what about if I moved out, then I wouldn't be here at all. I just shrugged my shoulders. I didn't point out to him that HE is the one who can't sleep in our house without me, that he never stays on the couch the whole night.
I hugged him and told him to please drive carefully. He gave a big sigh and looked at me, he said that he thinks this separation thing has made us closer instead of helping us cope apart from each other. He said that he feels himself being pulled in two different directions again. He told me that he wishes he could just go away for a while by himself to think. I told him to go to Niagara falls on the weekend. He said no cause he might get drunk and end up jumping over the falls. I laughed, but I think he really needs to get his head straight without OW (or me). He asked me if I wanted him to attend a dinner with my brother this weekend. I said sure, that my brother invited both of us and I think it would be fun. He said okay.
I asked him to drop me off at the store so I could buy something. He said okay, he wanted to wait for me cause he was worried about me walking home. I told him no, that I wanted to walk anyways. I told him I would call him when I got home so he knew I was okay. I called him and told him I was fine. 5 minutes later he walked in the door. He told me he changed his mind. He came to the room and we ML.
After he asked me if I was happy that we ML instead of him going with OW. I just said I was happy that he was home.
(but of course inside I was gloating big time....)
I am going to continue to back off. I am going out tonight with co-workers. I didn't tell H any specifics. I just said I wouldn't be home for dinner. I wonder how he will feel being at home alone without me tonight? I plan on getting home late.
He keeps making comments about moving out, but I don't know if he will go through with it. I think he realizes he needs to make a decision and just isn't sure how to do it. He told me he thinks by moving out, he will be forced to live without me and then see if he is just being an idiot. He again told me that he knows that he doesn't love me the way he is supposed to. I agreed, but told him that we could find the love again if we can get past this current situation.
Well to summarize:
He is not supposed to go out with me but we continue to go out constantly. He isn't supposed to sleep with me or hug me etc...but still does. He doesn't tell OW cause he doesn't want to fight with her. Next time he says he isn;t supposed to be doing stuff with me, I will remind him that this separation is for him to figure out what makes HIM happy - if he wants to do stuff with ME, then he should. I am not telling him what to do, so why should she??? (he has control issues and this will point out that she is starting to make demands)
He was supposed to tell his family about our separation but has changed his mind. He is still going to attend a family dinner this weekend with me. He cancelled plans with OW and stayed home with me. Things are more delicate now than ever, I think he is on the verge of making a decision and to be honest, it could go either way.....
(of course I realize that if he should stay with her, we still have a long road ahead, and with every situational change there will be a chance for him to change his mind and come back - ie - stopping physical contact, or moving out, or me dating, or our families finding out, or splitting our finances, or filing for separtion etc.... I just need to keep dbing.... thanks for listening.....
Wednesday is the weeknight that he spends with OW. He usually goes out straight after work, they have dinner, drinks etc.... Well, yesterday I got home from work and saw that his gym bag was gone which meant he went to the gym after work instead. He got home from the gym and took a shower. He had gone shopping at lunch for some work out clothes and showed me what he bought. He also surprised me cause he bought me some workout pants. I tried them on and they fit nicely. I thanked him for it. (why is he buying me stuff??)
I asked him if he was going to eat dinner at home or if he was going out for dinner. He said he would eat at home. I made a quick dinner and we ate it together. Then he asked me if I wanted to go shopping with him for some summer clothes. I said sure. We went to the store and actually had fun trying on stuff. He tried on a top that made him look super sexy and I told him so (he bought it, along with every other item I suggested he looked good in). I also bought a top on his suggestion.
We went home and then I said I had to go to the grocery store for some food. I asked him if he was going out? He said probably, I said okay and went to kiss him on the forehead. He pulled away, and I said "what? I can't even kiss you on the forehead anymore?" he turned his head back and indicated for me to kiss him on the lips. So I did, but not just a peck, I kissed him passionately and he responded. Then I left. When I came back he was still there, he helped me unload the groceries then told me that he was leaving. I said okay and started watching tv.
This is positive, he is buying me stuff, asking me to go shopping with him, and I sense him relaxing more around me. This behaviour is driving me crazy cause there are so many indications that he is getting closer to me, but he still goes out with OW. I am not going to ask him what is going on with them or how he feels about me. I hope that things are starting to wind down with her, but I have to remember not to get my hopes up, cause then when he disappoints me I will react badly. NO expectations....
Sorry that I haven't been here for you. It sounds like things could still go ether way. But it also seems at times that H is leaning more towards you.
Take what H is giving and make the most of your time. But Don't set aroung waiting for H to spend time with you. When H is in a mood, or you can tell he needs time alone. Do something that is just for you.
Keep up with the good work of no pressure and demands. The hard part is the waithing.
thanks for the encouragement kitkat, this weekend was full of more confusing behaviour. On thursday night we went out, H started to tell me about somethings that have been bothering him for years. I tried to validate, but at the same time I tried to explain that he misunderstood my intentions and jumped to wrong conclusions which he has kept to himself all this time. Now he is telling me all this stuff and it is so frustrating. He told me that I never acknowledge the ways in which I have hurt him. I told him that I have apologized (in the past) and I am apologizing again, but he can't seem to accept it. He also said that even if he comes back I won't be able to get over OW and he doesn't want to live his life that way. We had a major fight. When we got home I was very upset. H was angry but realized that I was going a little nuts so he tried to calm me down. Then H told me he wanted to ML (???) if I was okay with it. I said okay. It was crazy, it was like the adrenaline was very high which made ML very intense. He asked me to give him a hickey (I though but what if OW sees it? Maybe he wants her to? very confusing) I of course complied. The next day I sent him this email...
"Last night was pretty crazy huh? I am very sad this morning remembering some of things that were said. I wanted to tell you this before I forget as my mind is not clear these days. I am so very sorry for all the pain and hurt I have caused you. I guess I feel like a failure cause I hurt the one person I love more than anything in the world. I know that you have interpreted my actions (or lack thereof) as meaning that I didn't care about your feelings, but that is very far from the truth. You mean everything to me, my whole world revolved around you, I tried to show you this in my own way, but I guess that didn't work, and wasn't good enough. We have different ways of expressing our feelings - they weren't in tune with each other in the past...You told me that you don't think we will work out because I will never get over what you have done. That is not true. There will be issues that I need to work through and it won't be easy for me - but it can be done - millions of couples have to deal with affairs and they end up better and stronger afterwords. You have hurt me terribly in the past, but I forgave you then and will forgive you now. You are still so very angry about things that happened so long ago, I apologize from the bottom of my heart, but you can't seem to get past it. Out of the two of us, I am not the one who is unable to let go of the past and forgive and forget. I would like so very much to start a new relationship with you, one that we both understand each others needs and have learned from our past mistakes - mistakes that will never be repeated. But I am very discouraged because it seems as though you are unable to work through the anger and pain I caused you. I hope that one day you find the strength to forgive me, for I am truly sorry."
On Friday night he was supposed to go to dinner with me and some friends. He told me that he didn't want to go anymore, but would meet me afterwards for a drink (He always goes out with OW on the weekends, even if he goes out with me first, he will meet her after - so I found this weird) I said okay but he will be missing out on a good dinner. In the end he changed his mind and we went together. It was great, we had a lot of fun.
After the 2 of us went out for a drink. At the bar there was a trivia game that you can play. Since we had so much fun playing millionaire last weekend at home, I figured we could have fun playing this trivia game. Boy was I wrong. He asked me why I told the waitress to bring the game consoles? He said that OW plays that crap. Then he said that he came out to be with me, if I wanted to play video games we could have stayed home. It ruined the rest of the night. He barely said a word to me, except to tell me that I always find a way to irritate him. I didn't react, I just stayed quiet and had my drink. When we got home, he went straight to the couch. I told him that I was sorry, that I thought it would have been fun to play trivia with him, that he shouldn't assume that I didn't want to be out with him. He spent the whole night on the couch. (very rare - usually he comes to the room after).
In the morning I was upset. He however was cheerful and like his old self (WTF). He asked me what was wrong, I told him that I was upset cause he was mad at me from the night before. He told me that he is mad at me often, and that I should try to deal with it, but if it bothers me so much then maybe I shouldn't go out with him. I think this was his way of telling me not to take it too personally.
He told me that my skin was very soft now. I said thank you. Then he told me that he wants to buy me a cream that makes your skin even softer. (must be something that OW uses). I said sure. Why is he buying me more stuff? Why does he care if my skin gets softer?
That night he went out with OW. The next day I went shopping before he came home. I got a call on my cell, he was at home and wondering where I was. He asked me when I was going to come home, he told me he missed me and wanted to see me. I told him I had some more stuff to do and would be home later (180).
When I got home, he started hugging me and told me that he was thinking about ML with me all day (he was with OW, but thinking of me?). We went to ML and then we went out. We didn't fight or argue, he was calling me honey and baby etc...He told me that he is depressed (no kidding!) I asked him what is he depressed about? He just said lots of things. I didn't push. I told him he should talk to his doctor about increasing his meds or changing them... (personally, I see a lot of improvements with his new meds, but he probably doesn't notice)
When we got home, he gave me the cream he bought the night before for me (on his way to OW, he went to pick up the cream for me). I said thank you. Then he went to sleep on the couch, but asked me to join him. I told him that we have a large bed that we can sleep on instead of the couch. But he asked me to just stay with him for awhile. We ended up falling asleep. We woke up about an hour later and moved to the bed. In the morning he was normal. But then I talked to him at work and he was very cold and short with me.
Oh well.... I have to constantly remind myself not to have expectations and not to take his constant mood swings personally....but it is so hard....
All in all it seems like things may slowly getting better. At least yall are going out and trying to have fun. As for the game try not to let it get to you. He said the Ow plays it. That can be taken a few differnt ways. Maybe at that monment you reminded him of Ow, and he didn't want to be reminded of her.
As for him wanting to buy you things. Don't question it. If you have to look at it in the light of it's less money that he can't spend on Ow. But I wouldn't even look at it that way. I would just smile and say thank you.
As for his moods running hot and cold, and at times it seems like it the both at the same time. I think that is normal, and one of those grin and bear it things. I just wish I knew how to bear it so I could let you know.
Keep working on what makes you feel good about you. And keep up the good work.
Thanks kitkat for your support. I haven't been updating my sitch daily anymore, don't know if that means I am getting better at not obsessing, but it doesn't feel like it.
The past week has been more of the same.... On Thursday night we went bowling with our son. H kept saying how hot I looked. We even flirted a bit. I didn't mention OW or have any relationship talks. On Friday night we were supposed to go to the movies together but we had to stay with our son until 10pm, so we went to the movies with him and watched a kids movie. It was also fun. After we dropped him off and the 2 of us went to eat.
While we were eating, H said that he wasn't going to stay at home tonight, but that he would go with me to my parents for dinner the next day (saturday). I was dissappointed since we were having such a good time, I almost forgot about our sitch. I said okay. He asked me why I wanted to go out with him? I said cause I enjoy his company and spending time with him.
I get the feeling that he is offering to do stuff with me - my parents, dinner, movies etc... because he is starting to feel guilty about spending time with OW instead of me - even though we are 'separated'. But if he wants to be with her instead of me, why does he continue to ask me to do things? He is under no obligation to spend anytime with me....
Then we went for a few drinks. We ended up at our usual place, the last 2 times we went there we ended getting into huge arguments, so I think we were both a bit nervous. But it ended up okay, no R talk.
On Saturday he came home early and we planned on going out with our nephews. But then we got into a fight about some household stuff and I didn't go with him. I told him I would go to my parents alone. And I did, I didn't call him at all. I got home late and he wasn't home. He came home on Sunday and asked me why I never phoned him. I told him I didn't think he would notice.
He hugged me and we had this conversations:
H: do you still love me? Me: yes. H: why do you still want to be with me? Me: because I think that one day we could be happy together again. H: oh baby (sighs), you know if I leave OW I will be so very sad. Me: I know you will be, but you will be sad without me too. H: I know.
Then we went home and watched a movie, we went to sleep together in the room and were very cuddly. The next day (monday) he told me that we need to talk about us. That my brother's wedding has come and gone and nothing has changed between us. I said okay. We said we would talk tommorow (tuesday). Then he started tickling me and we were laughing, then he said that he wishes that things could be the way the used to be, he paused and then said 'sometimes I wish it'. I said me too. Then he said he was sorry for all the pain he has caused me. I just hugged him.
I asked him why he wanted to go out with me on Friday night? He said he wanted to see that movie, and he wanted to see it with ME. I said that we could go watch it this weekend since we didn't get the chance.
I am not sure what is going on in his head. He has been saying sorry a lot lately, also acting very wishful and seems sad about us. Does that mean he is on his way back to me? Or does it mean that he is trying to accept that he is leaving me and is trying to say goodbye? Very confusing, but I guess I will just wait and see what he suggests in our 'talk' tonight.
He just called me and asked me about our mortgage, and says he thinks he found a good deal for switching. He asked me to check it out. I said sure.
(WTF?? Why is he looking at mortgage rates when he KNOWS we have to sell the house when we split???)
I hope this gets to you before you leave work. But I feel the need to say this. (Please don't take it the worng way)
1) Don't get your hopes up about him wanting to talk tonight.
2) No matter what is said, don't get upset (or at least to let him see it) And don't get discouged.
3) Please post tomarrow if you can. I would like to know how the talk went. (I am praying for the best)
Now that I got that out of the way. Let me put in my two cents about the weekend.
It sounds that yall had a good one. Maybe a little step back about the household stuf. But hey every R has a set back about household stuff every now and then. So don't let it get to you.
You are doing a great job at not putting pressure on him when he ask you things. And also I think that yall going out is a great thing for you.
I really have no ideal what to say about him looking for morgate rates. Maybe he is looking to the furture with you. Maybe he is trying to act like everything is normal and trying to cope. Who knows, Maybe the talk to night will give a litte more insight to what is going on in his mind.
