Story and Symptoms of a WAW/MLC

[sandi2]

I think it was in my first post to you that I cautioned about going to extreme when implementing the 37 rules. I think there's been times you went a little too far with not responding to her texts/calls, or speaking when you come home from work (if I understood you correctly). Detaching is not treating someone coldly. It's not acting as if you are sullen.

I see a lot tit-for-tat in the behavior of both spouses in this sitch. I feel you bring a lot of unpleasantness into the R, b/c of your negative mental attitude. I understand that she is not perfect and has her share of faults, but let's focus on Robert and what he controls. Here's a recent example of what I mean:

Before that project, when I was local, I would retreat to my politics, my phone, and my FB and YouTube when I got home, and she would retreat to her reality tv shows. No interest from either party in spending time together.

An observer might think this was a mutual agreement. However, I think you are saying that before the bomb drop, you knew neither of you were putting effort toward meeting the emotional needs of your spouse. She had her way of unwinding in the evenings, and you had your way. No crime there, but my question is.... did the two of you come together at some point during the evening, or did you retire to bed just as disconnected as you were when unwinding? If not, then the grave was being dug for the MR.

But she never saw that she hogged the tv, she never saw that, that she retreated to her own world intentionally because that was always how she winded down and coped from her mental stress at work, and I pointed that out to her. But blamed me for retreating to my own world as a result of her retreating to her fantasy world

The two of you sound worse than an old couple nit-picking. Read what I wrote above. It's okay for each spouse to unwind after work......as long as it's for a limited amount of time. If the time is unlimited and you go straight to bed without giving some attention to each other.......then ice is going to form on those bedroom walls. A marriage is like a living plant, and it has to be nourished, or it dies.

Never left me a spot or a space on the couch. Never invited me to watch TV with her. She never saw that. She barely acknowledged her neglect on housekeeping, and division of labor, She would always spin it on me that I never clean the bathroom or dusted the floors. That was all she ever did. I would always do the kitchen every morning at 2 am, the dining room of all of her crap ( which is still there) the two-bedroom, and the yard during season.

Seriously? I mean.......come on, Robert. She didn't leave you a spot on the couch, and never invited you to watch TV. I don't suppose I've ever invited my H to watch TV, either. I might say something about wanting to see a particular show. Is the couch the only place to sit while watching TV? Why do you think she's suppose to leave you a spot? You are a grown man, and this is your home. If you want to sit on the couch, then sit on it. Tell her to move over, or move her cr@p and sit down. Sorry, but that is just too petty for grown folks.

I previously asked if you could hire someone to help out once in a while with some of the house cleaning, since it is a sore spot for you. You seem to expound quite a bit about her lack of housekeeping, and it's getting you nowhere. You've got to find a solution by trying something different; let it go; or resign yourself to taking on the entire house. Is it unfair? Sure, but you can only control Robert. B'tching about it doesn't clean it up.

I'm lucky I got to have dinner at my dining room table 3 or 4 times a year. She still eats on the couch (I'm sure that's a real good example for our 1 year old son.)

What? You can't clear off a spot for yourself to eat at the table? Stop playing like a victim. You are a grown man! If she's got the table covered with her stuff, move it over to the side and sit down with your plate. You are not a guest in your own house, so stop waiting for her to treat as you as one.

We recently had a couple of snow storms here and I still did the driveway, cleaned off her car every time, because she would prefer to use the electric blower, because she doesn't feel like picking up a shovel, which would cause the snow to still stick melt and then freeze which would cause slip trip hazards on the stairs in the driveway since we are on a hill. The last time I shoveled the driveway for her, as a bartering trade she asked if I wanted breakfast since I shoveled the driveway. I politely refused since her mindset was clearly " since you did something for me, then I owe you" (Covert Contracts) When I give, I give without expectation.

Is that what you were doing........... giving? Does the driveway not belong to you, also? This sounds so long suffering the way you carry on about all that you do, while being critical of her. There isn't much room for loving feelings with all that bad attitude.

Just as an experiment I tried making her a pot of coffee for a month. Other than on Valentine's Day which I left her a card of gratitude, she hasn't thank me once for making the coffee so I stopped that too.

So, if she does something, it's a covert contract, but if you do something.....it's an experiment? Do you drink coffee, Robert? If so, then maybe she didn't realize you were going to so much trouble just for her. Yes, I'm being a bit sarcastic b/c you are taking such insignificant things and blowing them into major issues. You need to stop doing things to see if she'll thank you or even notice.

She has however thank me and other places, for taking care of her when she had the flu. We had a talk which I mistakenly initiated on v day. That conversation left her confused, because she actually got a moment of sincere gratitude in the card that I wrote her. Which was what you wanted in the first place and she asked why now? She was eager for me to tell her and write out the things for her that she could have contributed better to the relationship. I told her I wanted to hold back on that I didn't want to come across as being critical any longer, and wanted to carefully think things through over time. But I haven't delivered on it yet and I probably won't, since she ignores me now.

OMG! If I were her, I'd feel that there was just no winning with you. She asked you to tell her how she could have contributed to the R. There was your perfect opportunity to try and connect on some level, b/c she was asking.........but you had rather carry that negative junk around in your heart/mind........and get back at her for ignoring you. She didn't invite you to watch TV. She didn't thank you for the coffee. And now, you won't answer her question b/c she ignores you.

Sometimes I wonder if we are playing the same game? That are based on DB in principles. Only she's doing it naturally and I'm just catching up?

IDK, if you are playing the same game, but I can't see where it is based on DB principles. Perhaps you intended to base your actions on DB principles, but you are missing the target. If anyone understands what a bad attitude does to yourself, your relationships, and your life in general........it's me. It's like a poison to one's spirit. My concern is you believing it's all in the name of DB.

But it's all the man's fault it's always the man's fault, how they rewrite MR history, can't take objective friendly criticism, expect you to do all the changing but they won't change their own dynamics, only remember absolute negatives, attach psychology labels that IC 's fill their heads with of their spouses, Like Boaderline Personality Disorder, Bi-Polar, Narcissism, etc... It's funny, almost downright comical how they associated a woman's fog of mariral confusion, and blame it on their partner for narcissistic abuse? I'm not saying this because I'm a misogynist, but after reading books on both sides of the aisle women's and men's about relationships, I truly believe that woman's empowerment reinforces women to feel like victims and relationships, and encourages and reinforces there fickle feelings and following their heart which can sometimes get them into a lot of trouble, if they don't balance it with their heads, all in the name of women's empowerment because it sells. Women's empowerment teaches them to move on to become their stronger better self and they sell them a bill of goods that doesn't deliver, and at best maybe encourages some reform, rather than teaching real relationship dynamics, and how to improve on them and work with what you have like the way MWD, and other pro-marriage advocates do.

Where does this ^^^^^^ come from, Robert? Is your W talking about these views? Is her IC pushing them on her? Are you reading articles that get you fumed? Is this an example of you debating politics, or just sounding off?

This is why even though I'm going to go see an IC for my own benefit, I'm not a believer of them because they only offer the simple neutral solutions of what the patient is suggesting, and are not pro marriage by virtue and principle. They are undertrained to deal with coping skills and marital exercises in bringing about resolve to a marriage. No they are all about feelings, and childhood traumas, and other Freudian philosophies, rather than behavorial modifications, and relations. The hypocrisies of of all this is my wife is a behaviorist, attending IC since Oct, and she apparently cannot see the duality of fault on both sides which failed the relationship. Even though I pointed out her behaviors over the last 10 years she has failed to correct them up until recently. Even though she's attending, IC , she's in full pursuit to dismiss me ignore me and move on to her new fantasy life.

If you feel that strongly about IC, then how in the world do you expect it to benefit you by attending the sessions?

Apparently to her I was emotionally abusive for criticizing her to help me pull the weight with the house, when I was just reasonably frustrated. Apparently to her, she did all of the work on the house, and all the child care, and the food shopping (the last two parts are true.)

Well, that's her side of the story, just as you tell your side. It's hard to accept criticism, even "constructive" criticism. And the closer the person (like a spouse), the more sensitive it can be. IDK how my words in this post may affect you. I have no desire to upset you. You say you come from a family who speaks very bluntly. I do, too. Who'd guess? Right? But I've been on the receiving end of some of my relatives bluntness, and it just felt harsh. It didn't make me have warm, fuzzy feelings for them. Anyway, I don't want you to feel as if I have been too harsh. ((hugs))

However she has a very exaggerative mind set when it comes to owning problems and responsibilities.[/quote

Exaggerative! That describes what I meant by you going to extreme with a few of the 37 rules. So, maybe you and your W are alike in more ways than you realized. Does you W struggle with mood swings from day to day? What happens when your moods clash?

[quote]I have a lot of work to do on myself mentally emotionally physically financially and spiritually.

Do you have a map or plan, other than seeing an IC? Have you written out specific goals in these areas?

I'm going to suggest that you are more emotionally attached to this sitch than you stated. B/c you are too focused on the little things. You need to let go of the aggravation about the house and the way your W handles (or doesn't handle) things. Let go of the bad attitude toward women and whatever "movement" is currently on the rise. It doesn't serve you well, and it will turn you into a bitter, lonely old man. Stop trying to carve your W into the woman you want her to be. That's not your job! It's not your job to point out her faults. If you can't let it go and live with her in love......then stop punishing her. Stop being her judge. The robe doesn't look good on you.

I just wish that she could wake up to the fact without me having to point out to her that all these issues within all of our marriages requires a persistent mind and the exercise of skill sets and coping mechanism, that these things for the marriage can be developed and it's not based on just momentary feelings that continually fluctuates. But it's not my place to point that out to her any longer it's her objective to walk her own path and for me to walk mine.

Sometimes I almost see myself in you (many years ago). I thought if I pointed out the mistakes my loved ones made, then they could correct it and become all the better. I discovered the hard way how it would affect a MR (or any other relationship). So, I get a lot of what you say, but I can tell you that it doesn't work like you think it should work. And, the fact that your W doesn't cooperate or head to your advise, does not mean something is wrong with her. My H would not change the way I thought he should, either. Go figure!