Thanks for replaying to my post. Just found it and answered. I have and Ideal. What do you think about posting our goals on the bb. I have seen some that have done that. It seems Like a great way to get things out, and maybe adivce if going the wrong way.
KitKat, that is a good idea, right now I am kind of disoriented, a lot happened last night....
Well last night I acted normal, went out for groceries, came home and my H and his mother were screaming at each other. I have told her not to bother him, to leave him alone, especially since he is having problems with OW. I don't want him to be stressed out at home. Of course she doesn't listen and starts arguing with him.(MAJOR drama queen) He called me over and told me to tell his mom to mind her own business since she isn't listening to him. I told her that she should stay out of it and that she should just leave him alone. She got mad and kept yelling. Then my H and I went into the room and he started blaming me for it. He said that I must be telling her what is going on. I said that I am not telling her anything, that she is not blind, I can't control her, it's not my fault if she gets involved.
He said fine, that's it, it's over, he said nothing is going to change between us so there is no use waiting for something to happen. I said okay then, I am going to leave for a while. He grabbed me and hugged me. He said lets calm done first.
We lay in bed and he told me that he is afraid that he will hate me if he has to leave OW. I said that he won't hate me, that he will be angry and sad for awhile, but that I would be his friend and be there for him. He asked me if I still have hope for us? I said yes of course, that my heart will always have hope.
He told me he is pissed at his mom, I said she loves him and just doesn't want to see him make a mistake. He said that he doesn't want to make a mistake either. (wow)
He said that he tried to break up with the OW so many times but he can't. I asked him why not? What is it about her that you like so much? He said it's just that she keeps crying and he feels bad and tries to comfort her and then it starts all over again.(stupid whore).
I wanted to say what about my tears? what about my pain?
I wanted to say I told you so - that the longer this goes on, the harder it will be. But I didn't I just listened.
He asked me why everyone is so against him, shouldn't he be allowed to be happy? I said everyone wants you to be happy, but that the way he is trying to achieve it is wrong. He asked me if it was wrong for him to fall for someone else, or was it wrong that he acted on it? I said both, I wanted to say more, but I didn't want to lecture.
He said that he wished none of this had happened, that we could go back to the way it was before. I said me too, but not to the way it was, because it obviously wasn't working.
He agreed, he said he meant the way it was at the beginning.
I told him that along the way, we just didn't communicate properly, that I didn't understand what he needed from me and that I was sorry. I told him I realize it now, but he already is trying to get what he needs from someone else.
We hugged and went back inside. He told me that he came really close to leaving me tonight (funny, over the past 3 months he keeps insisting that he has already left me and that I should let him go - guess he didn't really mean it.)
I said I realize that, and we started talking about trivial things and laughing etc...
Then my sister in law calls me, her phone is listed under my husbands name, our own home phone is unlisted. She said that a few days ago some girl kept calling the house, saying she wasn't sure if it was the right number, but that she wanted to talk to (my name). Her number was not visible and said restricted. She left a message saying she was looking for me, but my brother in law erased it. Anyways we are both sure that it was her. Any friends or family of mine would have left their name, or contacted me through my parents etc... by now. That was also the day that he was ignoring her and saying it was 'over'. She has his cell number and work number, but doesn't know his address or our home number...
Stupid girl, she probably doesn't think I know about her, she got mad cause my H wanted to break up, so she was trying to reach me, to hurt him or thinking I would leave him once I knew the truth. Haha. Well the joke is on her, cause my sister in law is going to call my H tonight and tell him about the calls. I am sure he will be even more pissed at her for trying to threaten him etc....
(Of course I am assuming all of this, but it makes sense...besides he will assume this as well even if it wasn't her intent...)
I am SOOOO glad I haven't given in to my urge to call her, I know that it would make my H resent me. And apparantly I wouldn't have been able to appeal to her conscience anyways, since she doesn't seem to have one. If she does want to talk to me, I will be more than glad to tell her what a whore she is. Of course I will not do or say anything that she can run to H with and cry about....hahaha
We'll see what happens tonight when he finds out about her actions.
In the meantime I am going to keep on d'bing, I feel like I am sitting on the sidelines watching this unfold instead of being stuck in the middle of it. (detaching, detaching).
I was wrong about her calling their house, it was a friend from work trying to reach me. Damn! that would have been so good if it was her. Anyways I told my SIL not to say anything to H. Part of me wants her to do it anyways, to place doubts in his mind about OW. But I think it could backfire in my face if he found out the truth. So I guess I'll just let it go... I was so happy this morning thinking about it, but now I feel down again...
My H was distant tonight, but not cold, I didn't push him for anything, a few times he hugged and kissed me. He made a comment about our child and I started to tear up, he grabbed me and kissed me and said sorry. I don't know why he makes these comments he knows will make me sad. I think he wants to assure himself that I still care. Anyways he went out again tonight. Probably with her, I didn't comment, just kissed him goodbye and went back to the tv. He told me that tommorow we could go see a movie if I wanted to. I said sure.
Anyways, I think I should take a look at the progress I have and have not made.
3 months ago (dropped the bomb out of the blue)
He wanted a divorce, he was confident that we would not end up together so what was the use. He focused on all the negative things about our relationship. Wasted a lot of money going out. Started seeing OW. Told me that he thinks he loves her. Told me that we should be separated (but still live in the same house). I was basically the cause of all his problems, OW was someone who he was happy with. Told me to find someone else that loved me the same way.
Today
We are supposedly separated, but we ML, hug, kiss constantly, even though he keeps saying we shouldn't, he always intiates it.
If I tell him that I am going to go away for a while to be by myself, he stops me and says not to leave, that he will miss me too much. He has been fighting with OW, tried to break up with her twice in the past week. Admitted to me that he doesn't think things are going to work between them. When he comes back from being out with her, he holds me and gets teary, says how much he misses me. He gets jealous when I go out. He says that he wishes none of this had happened, that we could go back to the way we were a year ago. Mentions past vacations and fun times we had often. Tells me how beautiful and sexy I look now. Tells me that no one else excites him the way I do. Has told me that I am such a good person, that I am 'perfect'. But then tells me he is scared that he will hate me if he leaves OW for me (he is actually thinking about it now).
Tells me he doesn't want to make a mistake by divorcing me.
Has been spending more time with me and our son. Told his mom that he sees that I am making improvements.
In summary, he realizes that he loves me more than he thought he did, that he can't let go of us so easily. He realized that I am not as bad as he thinks I am, at the same time he realizes that OW is not as good as he thoguht she would be. It's like I have improved in his eyes, and she has dropped a bit. But he still goes out with her, keeps going back to her as she pursues him relentlessly.
I think that he is actually considering coming back to me, but is scared that things will go back to the way it was before, that he will be miserable. He doesn't trust us yet. I see us getting closer, but at the same time he is still infatuated with OW. He actually asked me yesterday if he could have both of us. I replied with a teasing smile NO. Normally I would have told him off, but I realized that at least he actually admits that he still wants me.... it's better then him asking me to let him go....
Keep up the good work, as much as I hate hear this i have to say it It's going to take alot of time and Patince to see the tru .
Quote: But then tells me he is scared that he will hate me if he leaves OW for me (he is actually thinking about it now).
Next time H says that, Let him know that he has to leave her for himself not you. So there will be no reason for him to hate you. It is something he has to do for himself anyway. It's not like you can make him (if you could you would be in this poistion in the first place.)
Quote: He says that he wishes none of this had happened, that we could go back to the way we were a year ago.
That is one place even though you would love to go back in time I know i would. But you need to look to making the R better than it was befor all this happened. Learn for this and hope like hell to never repeat it.
Quote: I think that he is actually considering coming back to me, but is scared that things will go back to the way it was before, that he will be miserable. He doesn't trust us yet. I see us getting closer, but at the same time he is still infatuated with OW. He actually asked me yesterday if he could have both of us. I replied with a teasing smile NO. Normally I would have told him off, but I realized that at least he actually admits that he still wants me.... it's better then him asking me to let him go....
You have to go back to the time and Patiance when it come to him being sacared of things going back to the way they was. That will take some time for him to see that it won't and a lot of work on your part to make sure it dosen't.
Best of Luck & keep up the great job Kat
P.S. Please remind me of this post, when I need it.
Well, he spent friday night with her, he had to work saturday, when he came home he asked me if he could go out with some friends from work, he said he wouldn't stay out all night. I was surprised and said 'why are you asking me permission to go out?' I said I didn't think it was a good idea because he was so tired from work, but if he really wanted to go, then go. He told me he asked if I was okay with him going out cause he didn't want me to be mad at him. I told him I am not going to get mad at him, that it is his choice what to do with his time.
Before I found out about OW, he would tell me that he was going out with his friends, etc.. but he was really going with her. For the past month, since he decided to be 'separated' from me, he has not given me any explanations of his wearabouts or who he is with - and I haven't asked. I found it strange that he felt the need to tell me this info, and that he said he wouldn't stay out all night.
However, he didn't show up, I woke up sunday morning and I decided that I needed to find out if I could trust him when he actually bothered to tell me what he was doing. I drove over to OW house and waited to see if he would show up. About 45 mins later I see him drive by to drop her off at her home. (I don't know where they go all night, I think they go to one of her friends houses, or sleep in the car)
After he dropped her off I drove up behind him and called him on the cell, he didn't answer. I didn't follow him home, instead I just started driving. He called me on my cell, he asked what I was doing in that part of town. He had seen me behind him. I asked him what he was doing there? He ignored me and asked why did I drive off instead of following him home? I said cause I felt like it. He said we should go for coffee and talk.
I met him at a coffee shop. He got out of the car and hugged me. He asked me why I was checking up on him. I simply told him that when he didn't show up, I wanted to know if I could believe him when he tells me something. I said why did you bother to tell me anything? Why did you say you were going with your friends, but then stay out all night with her?
He said he was originally with his friends, but then met up with her after. (bullshit) He said he was planning on coming home, but was too drunk and fell asleep. I told him that he better be using protection like he said he was because I didn't want either of us to catch a disease. He said he didn't have sex with her last night, and doesn't do it with her often, but that WE no longer needed to have sex if I was worried about it. I said okay. His cell phone rang while we were talking, he checked the display, then rolled his eyes as if irritated and didn't answer. Later I checked his phone and seen that it was her calling.
I didn't get mad and yell the way I usually do when I am mad about OW or his behaviour. I was just quiet and told him that he should spend more time with our son, instead of with her. That if he didn't want to be with me - fine, but don't let OW affect his time with our kid. He said he wasn't doing that - I pointed out the last few times he went with OW instead of doing something our son wanted to do. Then he agreed and said I was right.
We left and went home, he hugged me and suggested we take a shower, asked me if I wanted to take one together, I said yes. Afterwards we ML, even though earlier he said we wouldn't.
Then we went as a family for dinner with my parents. They don't know what is going on, H agreed to continue acting as if we were okay. My brothers wedding is in a couple of months and we are to pretend that we are okay until after that. I don't want to upset everyone before that, also I can't deal with their questions or judgements right now. Part of me is hoping that we will be better by then. Anyways, dinner was fun and we all had a good time, even H.
When we got home we watched tv for a bit then went to the room. I thanked my H for coming with me, told him I appreciated it. He used to say that I didn't appreciate the time he spent with my family.
H mentioned that he is a little mad at me for following him this morning. I told him I understand, that this was just as hard for him as it was for me. That we are both hurting. (normally I would have started fighting with him about OW)
We ML again, he told me again that I am the only person that excites him to such a high level. I asked him why did he think that was? He said he didn't know. I wanted to tell him that maybe that's because we were made for each other, but I stopped myself. This morning he was nice, not cold, but a little distant.
I can't help feeling that we are simultaneously moving forward and backwards. It's NOT like we take one step forward, then one back, it's happening at the SAME time. He is getting closer to me now that I am d'bing, but at the same time he is spending more time with OW???? WTF??? I know I have to be patient, but it is hard to tell what is working and what isn't.
I know I shouldn't have checked up on him, but I also wanted him to know it's not okay to lie to me, that he doesn't need to. It also gave me the opportunity to react with a 180, instead of freaking out like I usually do, I was calm and friendly. Which in turn stopped him from his usual yelling and defensive remarks.
I am thankful for the baby steps:
- he checked to see if I was okay with him going out.
- he slept in our room again, not on the couch. (Hasn't attempted sleeping on the couch for over a week)
- we showered together at his request (something he has tried to avoid doing with me)
- we ML twice, even though he said we wouldn't anymore.
- He bought me flowers for mother's day (from our son).
- He was very curious about my whereabouts when I went out.
negative steps:
- He went out 3 times this week with OW. Even though he 'broke up' with her last week. (he doesn't know I know about the break up) He has spent more time away from home in the past few weeks then ever before.
- He asked me why I still love him and ML with him when he is doing 'bad' things? That I should find someone else.
- He lied to me about his plans (or is this a baby-step cause he actually bothered to make an excuse even though he isn't required to?)
- He stopped calling me at work, he used to call me frequently when I was upset about OW, to comfort me. Now that I have backed off, he doesn't call as often??
I guess I should just continue my efforts for another week or so to determine what is working, but it's so hard to tell, because they seem to bringing us closer, but at the same time he is spending more time with OW. I guess I need to figure out what actions lead to consistent improvements?
Quote: I guess I should just continue my efforts for another week or so to determine what is working, but it's so hard to tell, because they seem to bringing us closer, but at the same time he is spending more time with OW. I guess I need to figure out what actions lead to consistent improvements?
Maybe it will just take a little more time. Set down a exime what all you are doing. Is it helping you fell better about your self or feel closer with H? If so keep up the good job.
As for H spendig more time with OW. One of the sites I found said that right before a man or woman ends an affair they will spend incressed amount of time with OP to make sure they want out.(sorry don't know how to get back to it. Should have booked marked it but afarid H would find it.)
I know that dosen't help, but it might explain what is going on. And who knows him spending more time with OW, and seems like he is getting irritated with her. It might be a good thing, he can see that she isn't whant he first thought.
Yesterday after work, I got home and he told me he wanted to go get an oil change for the second car that I got. He told me he would come with me the first time, then I can take it by myself after. I said sure and thank you. While we were there, he filled out the info form for me, when he was writing my name, it asked for 'mr', 'mrs.', or 'ms'. He asked me which one to put. I said 'ms.' He said okay, cause I am not a 'mrs'. anymore. I said yes I am, but that it was none of the store's business, and that 'ms.' was the equivalant to 'mr.' He said that it didn't matter anyways, since I wasn't a 'mrs.' anymore. I got pissed and said, 'I don't remember signing any divorce papers, do you? I know it was bad to say but he was deliberately trying to piss me off. He didn't reply but then looked at my rings and asked me if I was going to to give them back to him? I said no, he asked if I wanted his back? I said sure, since you don't wear it, I might as well sell it and get some cash for it.
Totally immature conversation, I have to remember not to let him push my buttons. I have realized that when he is acting like this, he is angry inside - that could be a good thing, last time he acted like this was a week ago when he was breaking up with OW. I stopped that line of conversation and started reading the paper. He asked me what was wrong? I said nothing, he insisted on knowing, so I just told him that I was sad cause I was going to miss him.
I was going to talk to him about OW, and the money and time he wasted on her (it's part of our agreement that he stops spending cash on her until our debt is paid off, also that he should spend more time with our son instead of OW) But I didn't bring it up. I am going to try not to talk about OW at all unless he brings her up. I need to back off again, and stop pressuring him.
At night he told me to move from the couch, cause afterall, it's his bed. I said okay, got up and went to the room. He came in, changed and walked back out to the couch. I told him that I was going to sleep and I would wake him in the morning for work. I didn't act sad or mad that he was on the couch.
During the night he came to the room and we cuddled until morning. He wasn't very talkative, however he did mention that I should give out my brother's wedding invitations to the rest of his family (they have been sitting on the table- since I don't know where we will stand in 2 months I haven't given them out to the rest of his family - he says that maybe just the 2 of us should go - my family has no idea what is going on, and he agreed to pretend until after the wedding) I said okay, and just acted like nothing was wrong and when I went to kiss him goodbye, he gave me his cheek.
Backsliding:
- I threw the fact that he hasn't actually filed any papers in his face.
- he started off the night on the couch again
- he didn't kiss me goodbye.
positives
- he came back to the bed in the morning and cuddled.
- he told me to give out the invites to everyone.
- he didn't pull away for the kiss, just gave me his cheek.
I think this behaviour is due to my catching him with OW 2 days ago. (backslide) Or it could be because he is breaking up with OW but needs to let me know that things are not okay between us. Or he could be angry at himself for continuing to need me, even though he says he doesn't. I guess I can't really know his motivations, all I can do is wait and see. I have to remember not to let him goad me into a fight.
But, what do I say when he makes comments about me and him being apart in the future - I know I shouldn't get angry, but do I let him see my sadness? Or do I act like I don't care? It's not like he says it in nice ways or as R conversation- he says it sarcastically, or matter of fact like it's a done deal.
Most of the time my H is very loving and comforting to me about this situation. But last week when he was breaking up with OW, he asked me to go for a drink. I kept the conversation light, he brought up our R. He was talking about things that happened as far back as 3 years ago, when we got married. He told me how angry he was about some of the wedding decisions I made. I defended my actions, and we argued a bit. I told him that he shouldn't be harbouring all this anger and resentment towards me, that he should have told me. But I should have just validated his feelings.
A few days later we talked again and I told him that I was sorry for misinterpreting him when he was trying over the years to tell me he was unhappy. I told him that I didn't understand what he needed, and that I do NOW. But, that he has already turned to someone else for his needs. He then told me that he tried to break up with OW so many times but he can't. I asked him what was it about her that he liked so much? (I wanted to find out what he gets out of their relationship) He just said that she keeps crying every time so he goes back to her (guilt is his biggest motivator).
Anyways again this week he is angry at me, I am trying to not react negatively to it, but it is hard.
My question is - if I turn around and accept the blame for our problems (I have already admitted that I was in the wrong), doesn't that give him justification for his A? If he believes that most of this is my fault, and I agree, then he has no reason to feel guilty for his actions. How do I accept responsibility for my part, but still let him know that what he is doing is wrong too?
He is now expressing anger and resentment that has been burning up inside him for years - is it good that he is bringing it out in the open? Is this part of the healing process? Or does repeatedly expressing it keep it in the foreground? I know it is something that he has to deal with but what actions can I do on my part to help him get past it?
