My personal opinion is that I need to pick more battles with eldest rather than fewer - and not let his disrespectful behaviour towards H slide any more for the sake of some quiet. And I hope that H would be a bit less rigid and zero tolerance, let a few more things slide and give some understanding, and work more whole heartedly on showing love and trying to develop a bond again. But H is adamant he won't be seeing Eldest properly until he improves his behaviour, and Eldest is privately expressing a lot of hurt at the rejection and I can either act as go-between, which means I get all the flack, or refuse to act as go-between, which means each feels I am taking the side of the other and I still get all the flak.
I hope to be able to lay it all out from my perspective to the therapist in a couple of weeks. She may have suggestions I have not considered.
Yes, hopefully she might have some ideas. I can see that it's a difficult situation to be in! Judging by how you handled yesterday you will do ok though with a bit of guidance, they probably both need a pep talk to change their ideas up a bit too...
It is difficult because Eldest is sometimes a bit challenging with me, but in ways I'd consider usual teenage antics, and it doesn't bother me too much. He really does direct a lot of this behaviour towards H. And H feels blamed, belittled, disrespected, etc etc etc but has never - to my understanding - wondered if his own parenting approach might need adapting for better results. I've decided to say nothing at all about his parenting, my opinions about that, or to act as any kind of go-between at all. Therapist will make her own recommendations and I did like her and trust her so I am keeping as open a mind as I can.
Feel a bit sad tonight. Weekend approaching. No more dates planned, and I have not asked for any. I have GAL - a trip away planned which is partly work but also involves some fun. H knows I am going to be away but has asked nothing about where or when or when I will be back or anything like that. I'd hoped he might have asked for a date, even though the last one was so disastrous, and I have ideas of what I might suggest if he reaches out for another one, but it is important to me that he reach out. I can't do all the chasing here.
I wonder if I am doing too much? I don't want to drop the rope - one of his complaints is that I did not support him, and that has merit. He has asked for support, so I want to do a 180 on that without chasing. I sent encouraging texts and received cordial reply. He has started to ask questions about my day, which is new. I answer briefly and don't go into too much detail. I don't know how long I should keep this up before I stop - given the fact he doesn't initiate any texts himself and has only done goodnight text messages once. It is early days, I know.
I think perhaps I will just keep things going calmly like this until this therapy session towards the end of the month, and take the opportunity in that session just to listen, then take some time afterwards to have a think and see how I feel then. Does that sound reasonable?
I don't think you're doing too much. Him asking questions about your day is very encouraging, even if he doesn't initiate texts. Maybe you could remind him of the goodnight texts since he did agree to them? He did ask for the encouraging texts so that was him reaching out, and that's a big deal for a distancer. I don't think you sound like you're chasing, but maybe you might have distanced a bit too much? Perhaps you could mention your idea for a date and see how he responds? Keep it vague 'I thought it might be nice sometime for us to do X together' and see what happens there. I know you don't want to pursue too much but sometimes one person needs to take a small step forward to get closer. I don't think that suggesting a venue or activity for a hypothetical date is too pushy.
When I think about doing that at the moment I think about all the times in the past where I've asked, suggested, hinted, organised, taken control, begged, pleaded for some kind of emotional connection, time spent together, eye contact, him to actually have a conversation with me at some point between getting in the house, opening up his computer and playing games, then going to sleep. How much I've hated myself for staying with a man who, for whatever reason, refused to actually leave, refused to say he didn't want to be in the relationship, but totally disconnected from me then got angry when I got upset about it. I'm still humilated that I tolerated that for so long, and though a consciousness of my own faults and genuine love and pity for him as he is today keeps me sending these supportive texts he's asked for, my fear of being stuck, attached to a man who doesn't or can't want me, outweighs my desire to approach him more.
I pursued him for years. And his usual responses are 1) passive aggression - saying he wants to spend time together, then going out or going to bed and saying he forgot 2) blame - saying he'd want to spend time with me if only I weren't so awful 3) evasion - changing the subject, redirecting the conversation, not replying to text messages 4) aggression if I point out what he's doing and demand a direct and truthful conversation - by which I mean shouting and name calling and belittling and slamming doors because I'd 'put him under pressure' and 'wound him up' by asking him to act like a husband or at the very least an adult.
I am not sure I want to risk putting myself through that again. He's perfectly civil when I am sending these supportive texts and asking for nothing. When I ask for something, he says he will then forgets or doesn't bother (like the goodnight texts) and I know what his other strategies are to avoid being vulnerable or giving anything to me and I can't bear to be exposed to them today.
I am sad because I am not sure we are making progress, not really. I think perhaps he's just doing a better job of training me to give him what he wants and accept that we're in a relationship where I don't get what I want.
I sent encouraging text this morning. Cordial reply. I can feel the old resentment starting to gather and I am wondering if it would be better for me just to drop the rope and go dark. I cannot, cannot be in the same boat as I was before I kicked him out - with me trying to cajole him or nice him into being remotely interested in me.
Wow, you sound like you've spiralled back in time to some really negative thoughts about your marriage. In order to make progress you have to let those go. You're stuck in victim mode, climb back out of that hole and stop making assumptions that the future will mimic the past. Have some faith that he's capable of change just like you are, ok?
I think you're right. I can do some other things today, and concentrate on myself this weekend. I get like this when I am feeling vulnerable, I know that - and going away from home as I plan to do this weekend always leaves me feeling a bit vulnerable. It's sad to think of coming back to an empty house and I feel resentful about that. I haven't shared any of this with H at all, so he's no idea what is going on with me other than these occasional friendly cordial texts and that's the way it needs to be at the moment.
I guess I am afraid that this isn't a change. That him saying - and he has said very consistently - he just needs to concentrate on his work for the next couple of months and after that he will put his energy into trying to repair things is just another version of, 'yes, I'd love to spend some time with you tonight. Let me just play on my computer and get drunk until I fall asleep on the sofa, get angry with you if you interrupt me to remind me we have plans, and in the morning when you're disappointed tell you that if you'd just been a bit nicer and quieter the night before, I'd have WANTED to be with you rather than drunk and on my computer,'
I won't know, will I - if this is just him doing another version of that. And that in a few months when his work project is over, he'll carry on with some other excuse why he's not ready to actually deal with this, or he'll decide that this months-long audition he seems to be running means that he's decided, in fact, not to bother - and I could have moved on in this time rather than waiting for him. It feels like too big a risk, and I am taking it without really any reassurance from him or understanding from him of what he seems to be asking.
I am all in a tangle today so I think I need to get out for another long walk.
A long walk sounds like just what you need. And yes, it is absolutely a risk. Sometimes I think I'll have put all this time and effort into waiting for dh and maybe it won't work, and maybe I should have just cut my losses and told him where to go and moved on to find love from someone more capable of giving and receiving it. But then those feelings fade (because they're usually about me feeling afraid and vulnerable, not so much about him) and I remind myself of the small positive changes which have happened so far with both of us, and then I decide to wait a little longer.
How long have you been separated now, Dilly? It it about six months?
H moved out about nine weeks ago. Though I said I wanted him to move out back in November, we made it through December and past Christmas. We took the Christmas tree down on the 5th and he went the day after. I have to keep reminding myself it's still early days and I spent the first month falling apart and crying and raging and it is only in the past few weeks I've been able to care for myself fully and properly and get myself on an even keel. His big work thing finishes in mid-May, though I am trying really hard not to consider that the date that I'm going to get some clarity and certainty on the situation. I'm determined not to let this drag on all summer though.
